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freestonew
Acolyte

Reged: 04/16/02
Posts: 181
Loc: tallahassee, fla.
doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!!
      #1451119 - 06/02/03 10:58 PM

Hi all.....

i made a somwhat dis-cobobbilating discovery last game-night!!

I installed a few more mods, i have 120, or so, now. i had to "diddle" with several to get several to be "happy" with each other, finally i got what i wanted.

I returned to Balmora and then made a strange discovery:
ZEN has a indentical twin, standing next to him, in the plaza!!

yes i installed Zen the merchant, at the very beginning of the game. a simple mod: a merchant with mucho money and expensive stuff, with that wonderfull glowing armor.
---But in my mod diddleings, i never changed or uninstalled this mod, never touched it, last night or ever! i thought that it was a "simple" mod, no scripts, no complications....

so why the doublings?!!
*disquiet Thoughts emenate from freestone*
-----can *any* mod "double", if any other mod is uninstalled, where a mod seemingly unrelated to the uninstalled-mod, gets doubled?!

no wonder Quert[?] found 100 nix-hounds , in a photo sent to him, where someone had 100 nix-hounds coming at him, by doubling over and over....inspiring the giants to be "esmed"!!


in other words: changes in one part of the mod installs, can affect seemingly unrelated mods elsewheres!!

----ponder...ponder.
My first reaction, upon finding the twins, was to run up the balmora hill, to a quiet place and "clean" the game, clean the mod.
my next reaction was to do nothing, just let the twins stand there.

my *next* reaction, this morning as i waited for my bus, is to go back down the hill, the next time that i play the game, and see if all the swords that i sold the twin up front, are still in his inventory.
*then* i will check the other twin's inventory: i *COULD* have duplicate-but-separate inventories, in each twin, but duplicates only at the point of duplication-time!
*that* means...sports fans....that i essentually have two separate Zens! each with 19000000 gold and each with the "el-richo"
weapons, weapons that might come in handy much gametime later! to heck with the mudcrab; i might now have two Zens.

Do i hear the rustle of chairs across rugs, as many many "cheaters" who read this, go off to sit at their chairs to diddle with the Zen-mod, to duplicate it.
why stop at TWO?!
make a hundred Zens like those nix-hounds!
190000 gold!!!!
Fill the whole plaza with Zens.......
I, myself, probably will never use the other Zen. but in the "real" world...there *are* shopkeepers with a twin brother; i will let the double stand!!

freestone

--------------------
Freestone

live an incredible life

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Corwin_Corey
Acolyte

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 175
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!!
      #1451222 - 06/02/03 11:49 PM

Had a similar problem with Doc.....a toned down merchant....toned down, but 100k and lotsa books. Heh.

It was when I was first starting to mod my own house.....after the fifth argonian merchant appeared, I started to get worried...I mean, Balmora doesn't have too many argonians.....maybe...maybe it WAS an argonian who killed that Haluu retainer?

lol

--------------------
Goodbye and hello,
as always.

Morrowind Scripting For Dummies <- My new bible

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farrp
Disciple

Reged: 07/11/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!!
      #1451404 - 06/03/03 12:39 AM

Doubleing has nothing to do with the mod itself. From my experiences it has to do with changing the mods you have plugged-in and then loading your saved game. My advice, start a new game everytime you change the mods you're using. If you want to try a new one out use an old saved game just to see what the mod does. Then if you like it add it to your 'list of mods to play with my next new game' list. This should cut down on the problems.





--------------------
My mods:
Weapon Compilation Mod BETA 1 -- RELEASED
Quivers and Fletching Kit
Zyndaar Flame Blade
Chivera Ice Blade
Trap Making Kit
www.mungstyle.com/farrp

My webby - www.geocites.com/mwimprovements


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Astarsis
Curate

Reged: 04/03/03
Posts: 976
It has to do with cell changes
      #1451697 - 06/03/03 02:13 AM

Puma explained something about it, but I'm not sure I understood the whole thing.

http://morepumaman.freehomepage.com/support-main.html

read it to undestand the problem and see potential fixes, as well as how to do esm

You can solve that by trying to edit your save game in tesame. not sure if it's precise enought to spot zed, I doubt it.

If you got a previously saved game. Try this: clear your mod by going to an empty building, saving. Unload the zed mod, reload your game, save again.

Then the tricky part: open zed in the editor (make a backup before)
and try to convert it into an esm. If it work, got to data file, select the esm, click on details, select the gmst, hit delete (this clear the gmst export bug ).

If this work, you got a zed version that cannot be corrupted anymore by doubling.

Zed is a good example of file that would gain to be esm. It doesnt change the world much. just add a little, but a very good little

Hope this help

--------------------
Beauty Team Unleashed
Beauty Packs, Transportable Containers, Gazeeteer
Search by Author for Astarsis

(Unforgotten Realms) http://morrowind.unforgottenrealms.net/

(Also availlable on Summit)

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Deathbliss
Curate

Reged: 05/20/02
Posts: 702
Loc: Questing for my Dan Tien, my center.
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!! [Re: freestonew]
      #1572665 - 07/04/03 08:02 PM

Heh... That's nothing! I just decidd I was gonna play Morrowind for the first time in about a year. Cool, the last time I played I had made some changes to Amaya Lodge, and I had just removed everything, performed a mod free save, and then replaced everything. I was all set! Well at least I thought I was... Without me changing anything since the cleaning the damn double bug got me, and there's no way in hell I'm moving all that stuff around again, so I'm probably gonna quit playing - unless that tut (thanks for the lnk!) helps me...
- Deathbliss

--------------------
Creation is more powerful than destruction.
This is why good is more powerful than evil,
Because good has the power to create,
While evil only has the power to destroy.


Fight the RIAA!

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Grollen
Acolyte

Reged: 04/03/03
Posts: 153
Loc: Sph3re
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!! [Re: Deathbliss]
      #1578515 - 07/06/03 03:55 PM

I've had a similar problem (kinda) but with banners. Sometimes ther'll be two of them flapping in the breeze.

What's that? also with the dwemer ship (i took it out) and the banner/flags remained...how do I fix it?

hope this isn't off topic

--------------------
Be Aware
www.warblogging.com
Swimming Against the Mainstream

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Hellbishop
Diviner

Reged: 05/31/02
Posts: 4547
Loc: In The Void Of Outcast Shadows
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!! [Re: Grollen]
      #1578531 - 07/06/03 04:00 PM

Yes i had the same problem with the Zen Merchant Mod when it first cane out.The first time i used it was fine but in a new game i got his clone right next to him.

Yea i do what Farrp says and just restart a new game everytime i add a new mod.

Thank you for the imformation.

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Allerleirauh
Diviner

Reged: 10/09/02
Posts: 2137
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!! [Re: Grollen]
      #1578690 - 07/06/03 05:28 PM

Yes, I think my stronghold would have 62 banners at this point if I didn't disable them... you don't have to actually touch the mod itself, it happens anytime you touch anything.

Quick fix for doubling:

open your console, click on the offending clone, and type

disable

Now you are cool again.

This is so asinine to work with that I have trouble believing Bethesda puts up with it, much less anybody else...

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Joel22222
Adept

Reged: 03/06/03
Posts: 376
Loc: USA, TX
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!! [Re: Allerleirauh]
      #1578732 - 07/06/03 05:56 PM

I noticed after the diable method you do have to redo it again everytime you add a mod. Happens a lot with the bank mod for me, currently out of laziness the one in vivic has 5 banners flapping.

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Deathbliss
Curate

Reged: 05/20/02
Posts: 702
Loc: Questing for my Dan Tien, my center.
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!! [Re: Joel22222]
      #1578876 - 07/06/03 07:30 PM

OK, so if you want this fixed as badly as I do go here and add your support - you can also cast your vote if you want:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/favlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=30539&F_Board=tech&Thread=1575638&partnumber=1&postmarker=

In the interim I'm trying the "alter the dates" method...
- Deathbliss

--------------------
Creation is more powerful than destruction.
This is why good is more powerful than evil,
Because good has the power to create,
While evil only has the power to destroy.


Fight the RIAA!

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Martyriinn
Disciple

Reged: 06/14/00
Posts: 1528
Loc: Joisee, USA
Re: doubling can occur in a mod that is UNTOUCHED, unchanged!! [Re: freestonew]
      #1583920 - 07/08/03 04:12 AM

One word of note.

Doubling doesn't ocurr in a MOD, actually.

It ocurrs in a SAVE GAME.


Puma

--------------------
I'm GONE! Outie-here ! The Elder Scrolls Forum no longer appeals to me.
I can be reached at Morrowind Summit from now on.
- The Puma Man

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