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CanadianIce
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Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder!
      #2148035 - 01/16/04 04:58 AM

Motoki has just informed me on how you can do this! Maybe you all knew before, but in case you didn't... this is how.

First, create a subdirectory in the texture folder unique to you (I always use Ice) Place your texture files in there.
Then in nifTexture, when you type in the texture file location, enter this....
Textures\Ice\File name.dds
substutituting "Ice" for your unique name

Viola!!! Nice and tidy texture folder!

Wouldn't it be cool if more modders did this?

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

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Spudnik
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148053 - 01/16/04 05:04 AM

it would sure ad some organization.

man, the only sub directory i think i have in that folder is "birthsigns"

but i dont look there too often.

--------------------
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SirLuthor
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148068 - 01/16/04 05:08 AM

Oooh.. I have to try this out!

--------------------
You may have won the battle, but you haven't won the war. For here stand I, and I shall not suffer evil to pass while life still inhabits my mortal body.
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Monica21Moderator
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148183 - 01/16/04 05:54 AM

I may be completely wrong about this, but I thought that the reason it wasn't being done was because there was a character limit when assigning textures that included the file path.

Meh, I dunno though. It sure would be nice to have a cleaner textures folder though.

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ghostwheel
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: Monica21]
      #2148226 - 01/16/04 06:08 AM

I am not sure what kind of limit NIF files themselves have, but names like Textures\<27_character_name_including_all_other_subfolders>.dds are definitely supported. I have not tried to identify maximum length though.

BTW, TESRename will automatically add "Textures\" prefix if you try to move texture file into the subfolder using it.



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CanadianIce
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: ghostwheel]
      #2148255 - 01/16/04 06:19 AM

I think there is a character limit of less than 32... but...

say for my textures, they all start with "Ice_" so that they are unique. Well, now my texture files are in their own little unique directory called "Ice"... I can dump my little "Ice_" prefix in the file name, therefore losing the extra characters for the directory

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

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Hellwolve
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148267 - 01/16/04 06:23 AM

But someone might retexure your stuff, and keep it in the same folder...then, when they release it, your stuff might get overwritten...ergo, I'd keep the Ice_ suffix

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CanadianIce
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: Hellwolve]
      #2148317 - 01/16/04 06:36 AM

Quote:

But someone might retexure your stuff, and keep it in the same folder...then, when they release it, your stuff might get overwritten...ergo, I'd keep the Ice_ suffix




And keeping the Ice_ will stop them? If they overwrite, they will overwrite no matter what I name it. Let's just hope it's better than what I did, and I get the credit

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

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MotokiMO
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: ghostwheel]
      #2148335 - 01/16/04 06:40 AM

Quote:

I am not sure what kind of limit NIF files themselves have, but names like Textures\<27_character_name_including_all_other_subfolders>.dds are definitely supported. I have not tried to identify maximum length though.

BTW, TESRename will automatically add "Textures\" prefix if you try to move texture file into the subfolder using it.






Correct, for some reason, the nif needs Textures\ in the path before the subdirectory but it does not seem to count Textures\ toward the 32 character limit.

Actually, now that I look at it, it is starting to look like only nifs are held to the 32 character limit and not textures. Textures, unlike nifs, are not actually referenced by the editor itself, but by the nif which refers to them...

Okay actually I just checked and could not find a character size limit at all in the textures. I made a nif called 00test.nif and assigned it a texture with a path of Textures\testingtestingtesting123\blablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla.dds and it works just fine both in the editor and in the game, so it appears the 32 size character limit only applies to the name of nif files.

Ghostwheel, perhaps you can alter your utility once again to only check for longer names in nifs but allow them on textures?

Edited by MotokiMO (01/16/04 06:46 AM)

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Hellwolve
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148372 - 01/16/04 06:50 AM

Well, I ment unintentional overwriting..but...yeah, you're right

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Acid_Basik5
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148424 - 01/16/04 07:14 AM

Quote:

Then in nifTexture, when you type in the texture file location, enter this....
Textures\Ice\File name.dds




I hate how in Nif Texture you can't copy and paste filenames.
So, to make things easier I tried a few ways of accessing a sub-directory through the nif, and found out that all you really need is \SUBFOLDERNAME\ before your texture name. For example, my subdirectory is named \ACD\, and that is all I need.

This is a great way to organize things.

--------------------
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MotokiMO
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: Acid_Basik5]
      #2148440 - 01/16/04 07:23 AM

Not sure if I misunderstood, or you left this part out, but in your example, you would have to enter the path in the nif as Textures\ACD\yourtexture.dds and NOT ACD\yourtexture.dds. This is if you are doing it manually by hexediting or with niftexture. If you use Ghostwheel's new utility, it automatically appends Textures\ without you having to worry about it.

Also, I cut and paste filenames into Niftexture all the time. I usually just find the file, single click on it (as if I were going to rename it) copy then paste it into Niftexture and hit save, but maybe I misunderstood that part too?

-MO

Edited by MotokiMO (01/16/04 07:32 AM)

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CanadianIce
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: Acid_Basik5]
      #2148441 - 01/16/04 07:23 AM

Quote:

I hate how in Nif Texture you can't copy and paste filenames.
So, to make things easier I tried a few ways of accessing a sub-directory through the nif, and found out that all you really need is \SUBFOLDERNAME\ before your texture name. For example, my subdirectory is named \ACD\, and that is all I need.

This is a great way to organize things.




You can't copy and paste?? I do all the time.

I tried just putting just my subdirectory folder in and it didn't work. If it worked for you, then I'm confused on why it didn't for me.
But with putting Textures\Sub-directory\file name I did get it did to work.

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

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Acid_Basik5
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148452 - 01/16/04 07:29 AM

Thats strange, it works fine in the CS for me.
You are putting the extra \ before the name of the subdirectory folder, right?

Its also strange that I can't copy and paste. Maybe I have an older version of Niftexture.

Edit:
I see. You can copy and paste but you cannot use keyboard shortcuts. I was trying to hit Ctrl C and Ctrl V.

--------------------
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---

Edited by Acid_Basik5 (01/16/04 07:33 AM)

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MotokiMO
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: Acid_Basik5]
      #2148460 - 01/16/04 07:35 AM

I just tried it again and made sure I put the \ before the subdirectory and still no dice. It always wants Textures\subdirectory\filename or I can't get it to work at all.

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Acid_Basik5
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: MotokiMO]
      #2148467 - 01/16/04 07:39 AM

Hmm, what kind of errors do you get when you try it?

Edit:
Ah, wait, I think I know what the problem is. I have a texture in my texture folder with the exact same name as the one in my subdirectory. I bet it is still accessing that one, instead of the one in my new folder.

Im glad I know, now; probably save me alot of hassle down the line.

--------------------
---
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"I dont believe in wasting time;
Searching for truth you never find;
Nobody moves; we live in the Great Decay."

Cursive - The Great Decay
---

Edited by Acid_Basik5 (01/16/04 07:45 AM)

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MotokiMO
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: Acid_Basik5]
      #2148476 - 01/16/04 07:47 AM

That's probably the reason yes. If you don't specify Textures\ first then I think it will ONLY look in the Textures folder no matter what.

The error I got btw, is texture not found and if you say yes to continue you will have the mesh show up all white with no texture.

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paschors
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148501 - 01/16/04 07:58 AM

Quote:

I think there is a character limit of less than 32... but...

say for my textures, they all start with "Ice_" so that they are unique. Well, now my texture files are in their own little unique directory called "Ice"... I can dump my little "Ice_" prefix in the file name, therefore losing the extra characters for the directory




The character size limit is for the nif file, not the texture. It is for in the CS when you point to the NIF.

You can go as deep as you want under textures and it won't be an issue.

--------------------
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Home Page - Kiriel's Morrowind Creations

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ghostwheel
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: MotokiMO]
      #2148505 - 01/16/04 08:00 AM

Quote:


Actually, now that I look at it, it is starting to look like only nifs are held to the 32 character limit and not textures. Textures, unlike nifs, are not actually referenced by the editor itself, but by the nif which refers to them...

Okay actually I just checked and could not find a character size limit at all in the textures. I made a nif called 00test.nif and assigned it a texture with a path of Textures\testingtestingtesting123\blablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla.dds and it works just fine both in the editor and in the game, so it appears the 32 size character limit only applies to the name of nif files.

Ghostwheel, perhaps you can alter your utility once again to only check for longer names in nifs but allow them on textures?




That is true for textures that are referenced by NIFs. However there are other types of textures as well - namely particle and land textures. Those are actually referenced by ESP/ESM files directly and to my knowledge have 31 character limit.

But this is a little bit outside of topic of this thread. We can discuss it separately.

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CanadianIce
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: Acid_Basik5]
      #2148511 - 01/16/04 08:02 AM

Quote:

Thats strange, it works fine in the CS for me.
You are putting the extra \ before the name of the subdirectory folder, right?




That would be it! I don't believe I did use the "\" before the subdirectory folder. Just the one after.

Thank-you Acid for clarifying that!

And your right, the window ctrl V and C don't work, but right click on the mouse works for copying and pasting.

Edit: Just read the rest of the thread (really should do that first ) Oh well... at least going Textures\Sub-directory\filename works. It'll still clean up that bloody folder if everyone starts doing it now.

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

Edited by CanadianIce (01/16/04 08:07 AM)

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paschors
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: paschors]
      #2148518 - 01/16/04 08:05 AM

I don't know about the newest version but prior versions did not allow Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V. But, they did allow Right-click, Copy and Right-click, Paste.



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CanadianIce
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: paschors]
      #2148528 - 01/16/04 08:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think there is a character limit of less than 32... but...

say for my textures, they all start with "Ice_" so that they are unique. Well, now my texture files are in their own little unique directory called "Ice"... I can dump my little "Ice_" prefix in the file name, therefore losing the extra characters for the directory




The character size limit is for the nif file, not the texture. It is for in the CS when you point to the NIF.

You can go as deep as you want under textures and it won't be an issue.




Oh wow! Think of the possibilites....
I could have My main Ice sub-directory. Then in that, another sub-directory for each pluggin.

Would make uninstalling pluggins a piece of cake!

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

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refold
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148562 - 01/16/04 08:23 AM

Magic_Motor_Ola had this information in his/her signature so i learned of this possibility a number of weeks ago.
i applied it in my latest plugin (unique banners and signs). all of the dds files are in a 'BN' folder.

this information would have made such a difference when it was known in the earlier days of modding.

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MotokiMO
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: refold]
      #2148607 - 01/16/04 08:41 AM

Quote:

this information would have made such a difference when it was known in the earlier days of modding.




I agree wholeheartedly and I'm certainly not the first person to have found this out, I just want to make sure everyone knows about it because I've been modding off and on almost since the game came out and just found out about it.

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falkinblues
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2148728 - 01/16/04 09:32 AM

It works - I have been doing this since I started on Rafer, I assumed everyone knew about this.

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ghostwheel
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: falkinblues]
      #2148804 - 01/16/04 10:03 AM

Guys - a word of warning though. Don't forget that at some point all your textures will have to be loaded into the graphics card memory (which is in even in the top of the line cards only 256Mb). If everybody will start to put identical textures into the different folders, under different names, etc - number of textures used by the Morrowind's engine will greatly increase, resulting in degraded overall performance (in some cases - significantly degraded).

In other words - dont create additional copies of the (large) textures unless you intend to modify them.

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CanadianIce
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: ghostwheel]
      #2149629 - 01/16/04 05:20 PM

That's true... but if each modder started putting their new texture files into a sub-directory, while still preserving the file structure of pre-released stuff maybe we can at least start to get that folder a little more organized.

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

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SciMuse
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: ghostwheel]
      #2149800 - 01/16/04 07:37 PM

so ghostwheel...if i have ten mods that all use the same manikin textures, and they happen to have seperate folders...i am loading the same texture ten times?

this is totally bloating out of control the more i think about it.

i am thinking that the folder naming should not follow the file naming convention of two initials or whatever (if the length really isn't limited)...but on older machines I think win98 still has a character length limitation for folder names...i don't remember the length...anyhow i think i am going to go now and experiment with this...well...someone could make a dummy mod with like one or two nifs and a few unique textures in subfolders and pass it around to see how it works out...sorry for the babble it is late...



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SciMuse
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: SciMuse]
      #2149970 - 01/16/04 09:40 PM

back with some details...

used the tesrename on intelligentsia's marksman mod...

it worked...

tesrename managed to get the files into the subfolder i name marksman but it didn't create the folder...i did that by hand...don't know if it does or not because I made the folder without thinking to see if the prog would make it..
then i deleted all of the marksman files in the textures folder...

i started mw and when i went to delacia's place...where you can buy some of the weapons/incase you don't have the mod...and it dumped...problem was the sound files didn't get moved...tesrename doesn't include that option...in anycase...after I put the sounds where they were supposed to be...everything worked like it was suppossed to. sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

i don't care if anyone uses this on their mods...i am going to be using it on the mods i already have...it will also cut down on space because now i can do mass conversions of tga's in dds. i may actually release one of the mods I created now because i know i won't have to worry about 'same name different texture.'

the thing i like most about this...ok this might seem strange...it will make deleting mods i don't use anymore very quick. this is a boon for modders and i hope someone comes up with a really good idea to solve the shortcomings of this breakthrough..and please...someone come up with one....everyother house mod i dl has manikens in it...most of them are from the same original mod...having ten versions of the same manikens is going to hurt framerates and memory...so i implore you someone...come up with a workable solution..if nothing else...a little proggie that searches for duplicate names and sizes and dates or something....i don't know...

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refold
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Re: [Re: SciMuse]
      #2150071 - 01/16/04 10:39 PM

at first the word 'manekin' confused me.."what a strange word" i thought.

but now i understand you are trying to write the word 'mannequin'

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MotokiMO
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: SciMuse]
      #2150150 - 01/16/04 11:41 PM

Quote:

so ghostwheel...if i have ten mods that all use the same manikin textures, and they happen to have seperate folders...i am loading the same texture ten times?





Well ideally modders who are using existing textures made by other people or even used in their own previous mods should keep those textures in the main \Textures directory. It really should only be new or altered textures that go in subdirectories. However, if everyone starts getting in the habit of putting any new textures they create or modify in subdirectories, more and more mods will start doing it and they, among other things, will be a heck of a lot easier to remove.

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CanadianIce
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: MotokiMO]
      #2150500 - 01/17/04 02:35 AM

Yeah... what Motoki said.

For instance... I'm building a house mod with a lot of new textures... my textures... never released before.

I'm going to put those textures (Ghostwheel's utility will make that a lot easier for me now) into my own sub-directory called "Ice". Just like I do for my nif files.

Now my house also uses other peoples textures... like Sniper Daria's trees. I will NOT duplicate them and put them in my directory. Instead I will leave them in the exact same place this person did when they created their mod to release these textures.

Only textures I change with this pluggin and pluggins after this one will go into my Textures\Ice folder.

Now later on after I release... someone wants to include say... my couch in their mod. Unless they modify my textures, they SHOULD include my files with the same directory structure as my originals.

Only textures that YOU MODIFY for your pluggin will go into your sub-directory folder.

As for older computers not being able to handle large file names. Horse-pucky .

I'm playing Morrowind on a P3 533, 384MB Ram, Geforce4 420 video card, a cheap Yamaha sound card and windows98se. I have about 150 different mods installed. I've tried it out with my new file structure for my house... which is VERY big with a LOT of stuff, and the some of the texture file names are very long... I'm not having CTD's. In fact, I really ever have a CTD. But I do get a few slide shows

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

Howndog's and My MW Site

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TommyKhajiit
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Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2151379 - 01/17/04 09:13 AM

I've briefly read this thread, and I don't think it has been mentioned before, but:

The Morrowind engine will look for the texture in the full qualified path only, if the texture is not present in the textures folder. Meaning that if there would be two textures:

\textures\my_texture.dds
\textures\subdir\my_texture.dds

The first texture will be used, even if the mesh specifically points to the second one. This can lead to all kinds of undesired effects. Although placing your textures in your own subdirectory makes maintaining mods easier, it is still a good idea to have unique texture filenames.

In short, Ice keep your _ice prefix

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CanadianIce
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Reged: 05/03/03
Posts: 437
Loc: Canada eh!
Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: TommyKhajiit]
      #2151409 - 01/17/04 09:25 AM

Excellent point Tommy.

And seeing as I can use more than 32 characters for a texture file & path, I will keep my Ice_ prefix.

--------------------
CanadianIce

Modders, start saving your new texture files in your own sub-directory! Read this thread to find out how.

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Torpulf
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Reged: 09/05/03
Posts: 559
Loc: Sweden
Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2151435 - 01/17/04 09:34 AM

I tried that earlier after getting to the conclusion that my texture folder is a pure nightmare, and it felt like I went through all possible solutions without a working result. Guess I was wrong. Guess I won't be getting any sleep this night either *starts moving textures and messing with .nifs*

Great I wish all textures will start doing this *prays to gawd*



--------------------
/Alex

[WIP] Necromancy

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paschors
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Reged: 09/05/03
Posts: 850
Loc: Oregon, USA
Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: CanadianIce]
      #2151657 - 01/17/04 11:11 AM

Quote:

Now my house also uses other peoples textures... like Sniper Daria's trees. I will NOT duplicate them and put them in my directory. Instead I will leave them in the exact same place this person did when they created their mod to release these textures.

Only textures I change with this pluggin and pluggins after this one will go into my Textures\Ice folder.

Now later on after I release... someone wants to include say... my couch in their mod. Unless they modify my textures, they SHOULD include my files with the same directory structure as my originals.

Only textures that YOU MODIFY for your pluggin will go into your sub-directory folder.






Great idea but I have two problems with it. Not solutions, just problems that I haven't figured out.

1) What if the original creator changes their texture with a new version of it and it overwrites the copy you put out with your mod? Or vice versa.

2) It still makes packaging your mod more difficult. And removal of a mod more difficult. If all your textures are in one place you can just pull those out and package them in one step. If you want to remove the mod, just delete that texture directory...along with other removal stuff.

If they are all over the place, you have to make sure you keep track of which ones you are using in all the other directories. And post that in your readme so the user can remove them.

Which is one of the main reason for making your own directory - to easily identify which textures go with your pluggin for release and working with them. But maybe this isn't an issue with most people here. I started out by putting them in their own directory because I learned of the subdirectory technique when I first started. Maybe everyone else is used to keeping lists or a side copy or something of all the textures they are using from other mods.

So what is better? Having more textures on your drive because they are copies....making them very easy to package and easy for modders to remove. Or making sure there is only one version of a texture on the drive.


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Paschors/aka Kiriel/ aka Patty
Home Page - Kiriel's Morrowind Creations

Home Page - Wheel of Time Mod

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paschors
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Reged: 09/05/03
Posts: 850
Loc: Oregon, USA
Re: Kewl!!! Sub-directories in Texture folder! [Re: paschors]
      #2153432 - 01/18/04 04:38 AM

Was hoping for some more discussion on using other's textures.

Another point. Does TESMU and other installers know that files are shared? If you uninstall a mod will it remove all the textures it installed, not realizing you have the other mod also installed that needs those textures?

I haven't encountered this but I have no idea if I have installed any mods that share textures.

--------------------
Paschors/aka Kiriel/ aka Patty
Home Page - Kiriel's Morrowind Creations

Home Page - Wheel of Time Mod

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