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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 12:03 PM
How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!!  

is the tinge getting on your nerves? it got on mine, but I found how to get rid of it forever!!!!
this is not a setting you need to set, it's more of settings you need to set and things that need to be done...

I got a lil tired of having to redo the materials for all the objects I imported, so I am going to release my collection of hard won notes about imported objects, and how to export with many features and to fix many issues..

First, I will banish the blue tinge

1.) import your object
-note- now is a good time to save
2.) if included, hide the collision box
3.) select ALL of the objects, apply edit mesh
4.) select Edge sub mode, select all edges
5.) make all edges visible (at the bottom of the Edit Mesh modifier)
6.) select Vertex sub mode
7.) select all
8.) weld selected with an area of .01
-note- step 8 should have no visible effect, but if you watched the number of selected vertexes, it usually plumets, on the tree I went from 1407 to 659 less math for morrowind later
9.) deselect the sub mode and deselect the object
-note- now is another good time to save
10.) bring up the Material Editor
11.) select a free and click Standard
12.) under Browse From:, select Scene
13.) select the first item in the list, click OK
14.) INSTANCE it, do not copy, otherwise it wont change what's on the object
-note- SAVE!!!
15.) select the next slot and repeat the process 11 through 14 until all the UNIQUE materials are slotted, many materials are listed more than once, you only need once per material
-note- save after each and every material, for me, this is where max has the most tendency to crash
16.) for each new material you have, convert them 1 by 1 over to TES Shader, and select 2-Sided (something beth should have done)
17.) for each material, change the speculate from blue to BLACK (NOT WHITE!!)
18.) for each material, under Vertex Colors area, select the On checkbox
19.) Close the Material Editor
-note- SAVE!!!!
20.) select all the objects in the scene
21.) apply a Vertex Paint
22.) pick an object, go back to vertex paint modifier rollout
23.) pick the black swatch and very gently, paint just a bit of somewhere, all you need is part of it somewhere to have black applied
-note- SAVE!!!!
24.) repeat for each object
-note- heh, save
25.) Export, pick a file name
26.) Turn on include Vertex Weights, and turn OFF exclude Vertex Colors.
27.) All done

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qwert_44643
(Curate)
12/16/02 12:07 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

wow really intensive work guy.
qwert

My Mods:

http://thelys.free.fr/qwert.htm

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 12:09 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

to show that elusive wire frame, perform steps 1 through 5

to make an object like the paper on a lantern light up even in the dark, set the option Mode: in the Apply area to Replace; I havent tried the others, but I know that one works

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 12:11 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: qwert_44643] 

it goes really fast once you get the hang of it

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 12:19 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

steps 6 through 8 I found out by mistake, but it also makes me wonder why the models have so many wasted vertices, that's a lot of extra points that dont need to be there

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Garret_Strife
(Adept)
12/16/02 12:44 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

what is the blue tinge?

I hide in the night
I stay in the shadows
I can avoid being seen if I wish
Light is my enemy
Darkness and shadows are my allies

Garret Strife (Thief in the dark)

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karstux
(Acolyte)
12/16/02 01:28 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

Thanks GouRou for the precise tutorial! I've always wondered where the edges went...

With the material, I do things a little differently. To get the material into the material editor, I use the "Pick material from Object" tool (the one with the pipette icon). Now, I think it is enough to use the "Remove Material" tool on the objects (found under the "Utility" panel, through "More...", named as "UVW remove" in the list) and then re-apply the material to the object (after adjusting the ambient, diffuse and specular color).
At least that's how I think it should work, will test it later.

A final question, what does the Vertex Painting do?

karstux

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Mayday
(Layman)
12/16/02 01:44 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

Hey Mayday here - sorry for the trouble
first some explaining to do:

The edges - that's true i didn't add the loop to make them visible seemed like too much effrort for the alpha

The welding of the vertices - they're separate for a purpose - Nif files with separate textures attached to separate faces have the vertices doubled - no matter what... the importer just loads them as they're stored in the file..

As for the vertex painting - It nearly missed this alpha version cause I didn't have time to analyse the data - and as I now see it's desperately needed i'll work double hard to put it in the next version, along with the visible edges of course

Now the fun part - thanks for using the plugin... hope it does more good than harm ( )

Cheers
Mayday

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 03:19 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: karstux] 

when I did that, I still ended up with the blue tinge

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 03:57 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: karstux] 

the vertex painting 'covers up' the blue tinge by darkening the whole area, I'm not sure why it works, but the painting is what actually gets rid of the tinge

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Mayday
(Layman)
12/16/02 04:44 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

The vertex painting propably restores the vertex color properties to their default value - i didn't do anything with the properties, so they're left uninitialised

Anyway
that goes to my "To Do" list

Cheers
Mayday

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Heeby_Jeeby
(Acolyte)
12/16/02 05:09 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Mayday] 

So, does this mean that someone will release the Morrowind models with a lower poly count? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? ( it's pretty technical, pretty scary up there, ooh man )

----------------------

Cormaris View
Tamriel Rebuilt
The Post-Apoc site

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Heeby_Jeeby
(Acolyte)
12/16/02 05:10 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Mayday] 

So, does this mean that there is the potential to release the Morrowind models with a lower poly count? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? ( it's pretty technical, pretty scary up there, ooh man )

----------------------

Cormaris View
Tamriel Rebuilt
The Post-Apoc site

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Heeby_Jeeby
(Acolyte)
12/16/02 05:10 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Mayday] 

So, does this mean that there is the potential to release the Morrowind models with a lower poly count? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? ( it's pretty technical, pretty scary up there, vertex painting? ooh man )

----------------------

Cormaris View
Tamriel Rebuilt
The Post-Apoc site

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Rhedd
(Acolyte)
12/16/02 05:15 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

Although I'm pretty confused about why you'd do half of the things after step 15, I DO know that setting your materials to double-sided is a VERY bad idea unless it's actually necessary for the model to look right. Every polygon that has a double-sided material on it is DOUBLED in MW, so your polycount is twice what it should be.

Have fun,
Rhedd

"My love is accidentally shaped like a spear." -Molag Bal, The 36 Lessons of Vivec: Sermon 14

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Mayday
(Novice)
12/16/02 05:18 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Heeby_Jeeby] 

He he as a very indirect consequence - yes. it's a discussion about the lacks of the nifimporter and the workarounds - technicly it could be used to lower the polycount of the models and reexport them but it has other uses as well

Cheers
Mayday

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Mayday
(Novice)
12/16/02 05:19 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Heeby_Jeeby] 

He he as a very indirect consequence - yes. It's a discussion about the lacks of the nifimporter and the workarounds - technicaly it could be used to lower the polycount of the models and reexport them but it has other uses as well

Cheers
Mayday

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Eldar Mayiere
(Adept)
12/16/02 05:29 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Mayday] 

To banish the blue tinge I do a simpler thing.
1) Import the model
2) save
3) Hit m to show the material editor
4) New material-->scene
5) Change the specular color from blue to white
6) Change from blinn to anisitropic
7) Resave

I have modified more than 30 object and they works perfectly

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 05:33 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Rhedd] 

noooo! I checked it out, faces are double sided anyway, but this way they are double textured, which from what experience I have in game engines, doesnt slow down, since textures dont get mapped unless they are shown. the wires get drawn, yes, but the textures are not drawn, so that part of the performance hit isnt there

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Mayday
(Novice)
12/16/02 05:34 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Eldar Mayiere] 

Ok i'll try to put that in my code - it doesn't seem to accept the material in the nif file...

Ok another thing hits the "ToDo" list

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/16/02 05:37 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Eldar Mayiere] 

"6) Change from blinn to anisitropic "

but then you lose the tes stuff like forcing the texture to stay lit

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lostkiwi
(Adept)
12/17/02 03:36 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

I think this needs bumping, with everyones input here progress seems to be being made slowly.

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/17/02 09:03 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: lostkiwi] 

I just seem to have the definitive last word
it's more like, they can use my tut, or karstux's tut, or anyone else's, they just have to figure out which is fastest or easiest, or best, mine isnt hard or long, I just layed it out plainly in many steps, it only takes me a minute to convert most models, so it's really not that much of a hassle considering you'll spend a much longer time tweaking the mesh or retexturing, or whatever your going to do.

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Allerleirauh
(Adept)
12/17/02 09:13 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

Um.... this is simply wrong. You need to pull your models out in the editor and look at the polycount of them (it's at the bottom of the screen). Double-siding textures doubles the polycount of the model. That matters a lot.

Nifs seem to handle double sided textures by simply doubling the polys.

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Eldar Mayiere
(Adept)
12/17/02 09:35 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

I have played with many imported object and I haven't detected any differences.
Plus if you want to make an object litted just set to 20 the color tab

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/18/02 07:40 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Allerleirauh] 

*goes mute* that's some pretty bad coding, but now I understand the doubling of the vertices. I'll concede, NetImmerse doubles the polys for 2 sided textures, but that to me is just one more thing wrong with their engine, it is that way, true, but it shouldnt be.

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Craydon
(Disciple)
12/18/02 07:46 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE GLOW ASSOCIATED WITH ENCHANTING? IF YOU ARE I THINK IT WOULD BE MORE USEFUL IF YOU COULD MAKE THE GLOW EDITABLE IN THE TEXTURE...

TRUE HAPPINESS IS <30% PRODUCTIVITY
'WE ARE ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY BEAUTIFUL AND PITIFUL'
IF LIFE ISN'T A RACE, YOU CAN'T WIN...

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lostkiwi
(Adept)
12/18/02 07:51 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

Quick question about your second step (I can't test this as I am at work) -

2.) if included, hide the collision box

Taking a wall as the imported .nif:
If you simply hide the collision box then export the .nif will the collision box show up in the CS as a plane covering the wall or will it be invisible?

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/18/02 08:23 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: lostkiwi] 

I dont know, I usually delete it, which might be a bad idea, but I dont see why it wouldnt work, I walk on other objects that dont have the box

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/18/02 08:25 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Craydon] 

the glow like of the paper on the lanterns

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lostkiwi
(Adept)
12/18/02 08:28 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

Yeah I have not found a problem with deleting it. I can't walk through walls I've created, maybe NPC's or creatures can. I'll have to experiment more I guess.

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Craydon
(Disciple)
12/18/02 08:40 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

I STILL WOULD RATHER BE ABLE TO EDIT THIS THAN DELETE IT, SO MANY THINGS COULD BE DONE WITH THIS...

TRUE HAPPINESS IS <30% PRODUCTIVITY
'WE ARE ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY BEAUTIFUL AND PITIFUL'
IF LIFE ISN'T A RACE, YOU CAN'T WIN...

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Allerleirauh
(Adept)
12/18/02 08:48 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

The thing to do is make a separate texture for the part that should be double-sided and only double-side the faces you have to. It shocked the heck out of us the first time we did a 400 poly hair and looked at it in the editor and it was 800 polys!

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GouRou
(Adept)
12/18/02 09:17 AM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: Allerleirauh] 

I have several objects that I will make 2 sided, since they are small, 150 polys or so, I guess I'll just have to limit myself, or as you said, only 2 side what I need per object *sighs* I did notice though, when I did some frame comparisons, if I delete the alpha off of everything on the tree, and 2 side it, it still gives me better frame rates than the original trees

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IggyEGuana
(Acolyte)
01/10/03 09:19 PM
Re: How To: BANISH THE BLUE TINGE!!!! [re: GouRou] 

This needs a bump. Just for it's helpfulness.

Blue tinge! Be gone with ya!

___________________

My piece of the internet:

www.geocities.com/iggyeguana

BMXify Yourself

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