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Veet
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Looking for answers about the Hisst
      #1642966 - 07/25/03 10:30 AM

Okay I am trying to get a general idea of how many Hisst Trees are left in the Black Marsh. I have read about them several places including "The Seed", the creation story of Nirn, and some breif mention in "The Pocket Guide" amongst other places where they show up in history.

Everything I have read suggests that there are several if not a couple hundred left in the Black marsh in areas. However I have heard talk in the forums and other places about there being only one left. I have not found anything in Elder Scrolls lore to suport this claim.

So I am sending out the question to the Lore Masters. How many Hisst are left in Tamriel?

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Enternall_fish
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Veet]
      #1644175 - 07/25/03 05:16 PM

I beleave their is only one left, i just searched for it on the Imperial Library, but i was stupid enough not to copy the link, sorry.

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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Enternall_fish]
      #1649575 - 07/27/03 01:19 PM

We don't know. It isn't documented.

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zingbat
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Enternall_fish]
      #1651211 - 07/28/03 01:45 AM

You mean one left that is active. Right ?


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Enternall_fish
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: zingbat]
      #1651252 - 07/28/03 02:01 AM

Im not sure, it doesn't say but from what i saw, it said one Hist active, the Dwemer cut down the rest, so i think their is only one left in total.

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phil_t
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Enternall_fish]
      #1655711 - 07/29/03 04:59 PM

The book you are referring to is The Seed , vol 2 of Marobar Sul's 'Ancient Tales of the Dwemer' - and any scholar would tell you to be wary of Marobar Sul He is a rather disreputable sort, and whilst it appears that there is some truth in his tales, it pays to read the footnotes at the end of the book.

As to your question Veet, we can offer only clues to the truth - here is a line from The Monomyth -

Quote:

Even the hist acknowledge this being




Now a brief explanation of why this line is important, consider the following two lines -

Even they acknowledge this being
Even Dave acknowledges this being

Its a long shot i know, but because it says acknowledge rather than acknowledges it is referring to a group rather than an individual

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Enternall_fish
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: phil_t]
      #1655952 - 07/29/03 06:55 PM

Yeah oke, but on the bottom it says the changes are with names, it says nothing about the story itself, so it could just as well be true. I read that at first but probably must have forgotten about it later on, in any case the Argonians have the same book as it says at the bottom, that would mean two sources say the same thing, one only claims Dwemer, and the other Dunmer.

No the Dunmer story is the correct one and thats the one the Argonians have, but that doesn't mean the Argonian story wich his one is based on isn't true atleast in the big lines.

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phil_t
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Enternall_fish]
      #1656269 - 07/29/03 10:26 PM

I agree actually, it could be that the whole story is true, just with Dunmer instead of Dwemer - and that there is only one hist left

It is impossible to know, because there are only about four sources that mention the hist at all, and then only usually in passing - until more official sources can be found i doubt we'll learn much more about the hist, or the argonians themselves

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Veet
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: phil_t]
      #1658049 - 07/30/03 10:24 AM

Quote:

The rest of the Argonians are primitive, reclusive, and practice heathen rituals of nature worship that necessitates a proximity to a certain type of spore-tree, which grows only in the interior of their native swamplands.

--Pocket Guide to the Empire




Question; Would the "spore tree" spoke of in the Pocket Guide be refering to the Hist? It would seem to fit since we do know the Hist are worshiped by the Argonians.

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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: phil_t]
      #1658201 - 07/30/03 11:29 AM

Quote:

I agree actually, it could be that the whole story is true, just with Dunmer instead of Dwemer - and that there is only one hist left





Where in the story does it say that all the Hist in Black Marsh are gone except for one? It only deals with the annhiliation of the Hist in one village in Morrowind ... or did I miss something?

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Veet
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: ]
      #1658216 - 07/30/03 11:34 AM

That's exactly the root of my original question.....I find references to the hist as plural but none as singular. I find nothing to suport the idea of one hist being left.

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Enternall_fish
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Veet]
      #1659139 - 07/30/03 05:23 PM

Read this FRom the Seed

Quote:

"Why did the trees die?" asked Kamdida.

"When there were Argonians only in this land, we never cut trees for we had no need for fuel or wooden structures such as you use. When the Dwemer came, we allowed them to use the plants as they needed them, provided they never touched the Hist, which are sacred to us and to the land. For many years, we lived peaceably. No one wanted for anything."

"What happened?"

"Some of your scientists discovered that distilling a certain tree sap, molding it and drying it, they could create a resilient kind of armor called resin," said Sigerthe. "Most of the trees that grew here had very thin ichor in their branches, but not the Hist. Many of them fairly glistened with sap, which made the Dwemer merchants greedy. They hired a woodsman named Juhnin to start clearing the sacred arbors for profit."

The old Argonian woman looked to the dusty ground and sighed, "Of course, we Argonians cried out against it. It was our home, and the Hist, once gone, would never return. The merchants reconsidered, but Juhnin took it on his own to break our spirit. He proved one terrible, bloody day that his prodigious skill with the axe could be used against people as well as trees. Any Argonian who stood in his way was hewn asunder, children as well. The Dwemer people of Lorikh closed their doors and their ears to the cries of murder."

"Horrible," gasped Kamdida.

"It is difficult to explain," said Sigerthe. "But the deaths of our living ones was not nearly as horrible to us as the death of our trees. You must understand that to my people, the Hist are where we come from and where we are going. To destroy our bodies is nothing; to destroy our trees is to annihilate us utterly. When Juhnin then turned his axe on the Hist, he killed the land. The water disappeared, the animals died, and all the other life that the trees nourished crumbled and dried to dust."




It doesn't really say all Hist died, but it does say that the lands needed the Hist to survive and that they were cut down and the land died, you can get your own conclusions out of it.

Quote:

"What will happen?" asked Kamdida. "Will the Hist return?"
"No. But some part of their power will."





Also some other things that state that there are no more Hist. How could it return if it was still there

Quote:

He returned to his house and fire. The next morning when he awoke and opened the door, he found that his cottage was entirely sealed within an enormous tree. He picked up his axe and delivered blow and after blow to the wood, but he could never break through. He tried side chops, but the wood healed itself. He tried an upper chop followed by an under chop to form a wedge, but the wood sealed.

Much time went by before someone discovered old Juhnin's emaciated body lying in front of his open door, still holding his blunted, broken axe. It was a mystery to all what he had been chopping with it, but the legend began circulating through Lorikh that Hist sap was found on the blade.

Shortly thereafter, small desert flowers began pushing through the dry dirt in the town. Trees and plants newly sown began to live tolerably well, if not luxuriantly. The Hist did not return, but Kamdida and the people of Lorikh noticed that at a certain time around twilight, long, wide shadows of great, bygone trees would fill the streets and hills.





This part makes me think that their is still one more Hist, that only the woodchopper could see and feel, that means that their is one hist or none, it says that the life began to return later on wich means that there were no More hist early one, seeing that there was no more life, or pherhaps their were but one was just not strong enough.

In any case there is atleast one Hist's power active wether the tree is there and cloacked from all, or is just not there i don't know, but according to this book there is at least the power on Hist.

But as Phil_t pointed out there is to little info on the hist to be sure.

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Nigedo
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Enternall_fish]
      #1659724 - 07/30/03 11:41 PM

I am completely with Sheogorath on this one. The Seed is an Argonian folktale (albeit retold by Marobar Sul) that depicts events in a land distant to Black Marsh i.e. Morrowind.

As Og Apostrophe has said and in all that has been quoted here so far, there is no conclusive evidence one way or another for the present state of Hist trees as a whole.

Although, I will add that The Seed, at least, suggests that without the continued existence of the Hist, Argonians would simply die out and I believe that the Argonian race is still thriving in Black Marsh.


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Enternall_fish
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Nigedo]
      #1659821 - 07/31/03 12:42 AM

Quote:

"What will happen?" asked Kamdida. "Will the Hist return?"
"No. But some part of their power will."




This says that their is still the power of the Hist active in the Black Marsh, it says that they will not return but the power will, and before that they state the Argonians will soon die. I don't know i think the book is correct especially since its state's on the bottom that the Argonians themselfs had the same book, only without the Dunmer changed into Dwemer.

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Veet
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Enternall_fish]
      #1661458 - 07/31/03 11:30 AM

I would hold with the fact that the Seed is most definately a fairy tale. Consider this pasage in the "Publishers Notes"

Quote:

Lorikh, while clearly not a Dwemer name, simply does not exist, and in fact "Lorikh" was a name commonly used, incorrectly, for Dunmer men in Gor Felim's plays. The Argonian versions of the story usually take place on Vvardenfell, usually in the Telvanni city of Sadrith Mora






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Nigedo
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Enternall_fish]
      #1665563 - 08/01/03 10:01 PM

Eternall_fish (primarily),

By saying that 'The Seed' is a folktale I did not intend to imply that it is entirely untruthful and therefore without value to students of lore relating to Argonians. I disagree with Veet's comment that this account is a "fairy tale".

Actually I belive that 'The Seed' is an important document that gives a very rare insight into the importance that Argonians attribute to the Hist and their relationship with these trees.

However, 'The Seed' does not provide any evidence for the demise of Hist trees as a whole race, since it is clearly a tale depicting events in one specific region, which the footnotes suggest to be Vvardenfell.

True or not then, this account would have no bearing whatever on an examination of the present state of the Hist in Black Marsh and anyone wishing to present such an examination must find evidence elsewhere.



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Enternall_fish
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Re: Looking for answers about the Hisst [Re: Nigedo]
      #1665574 - 08/01/03 10:11 PM

I agree with you on that, unfortunally i couldn't find anything else besides the Seed, so i think that all whe can do is speculate on how true this book is and try to reach some sort of conclusion out of it, True or not its the only source there is, as far as i know, but that doesn't make it any less fun discussing it.

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