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funkypudding
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Elder Scrolls Numerology
      #2621724 - 05/26/04 07:36 AM

What numbers are most important, and what are their meanings? I keep finding strange numbers in the teachings of Vivec, and I don't understand them.

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mafafu
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: funkypudding]
      #2621738 - 05/26/04 07:38 AM

I would say 1, 3, and 11 are all important. Read THIS for much more information (and quite possibly, a headache). :

--------------------
Fellow of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. - Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow

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funkypudding
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: mafafu]
      #2621751 - 05/26/04 07:41 AM

I read that when it first came out. TES Lore has always been interesting to me.

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Lore? Why not?

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mafafu
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: funkypudding]
      #2621788 - 05/26/04 07:47 AM

If you've already read that, then there's likely little more that I can tell you.

Actually Sermon 29 holds quite a bit on numerology that may not have been covered in that thread:

Quote:



The Scripture of the Numbers:

1. The Dragon Break, or the Tower. 1
2. The Enantiomorph. 68
3. The Invisible Gate, ALMSIVI. 112
4. The Corners of House of Troubles. 242
5. The Corners of the World. 100
6. The Walking Ways. 266
7. The Sword at the Center. 39
8. The Wheel, or the Eight Givers. 484
9. The Missing. 11
10. The Tribes of the Altmer. 140
11. The Number of the Master. 102
12. The Heavens. 379
13. The Serpent. 36
14. The King's Cough. 32
15. The Redeeming Force. 110
16. The Acceptable Blasphemes. 12
17. The Hurling Disk. 283
18. The Egg, or Six Times the Wise.
19. The Provisional House. 258
20. The Lunar Lattice. 425
21. The Womb. 13
22. Unknown. 453
23. The Hollow Prophet. 54
24. The Star Wound. 44

25. The Emperor. 239
26. The Rogue Plane. 81
27. The Secret Fire. 120
28. The Drowned Lamp. 8
29. The Captive Sage. 217
30. The Scarab. 10
31. The Listening Frame. 473
32. The False Call. 7
33. The Anticipations. 234
34. The Lawless Grammar. 2
35. The Prison-Shirt. 191
36. The Hours. 364




Notice things like, '3. The Invisible Gate' which Vivec calls triangular. And 4 is the Corners of the House of Troubles. 13 is the Serpent (the Thriteenth constellation). 17 is the Hurling Disk, covering in depth in Solin's study, I believe. It just may be that they all mean something.

--------------------
Fellow of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. - Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow

Edited by mafafu (05/26/04 07:54 AM)

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funkypudding
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: mafafu]
      #2621791 - 05/26/04 07:48 AM

Foo. Well, thanks. Buttered toast to you!

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Lore? Why not?

Jesus saves, but Eris is better in bed.

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mafafu
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: funkypudding]
      #2621814 - 05/26/04 07:54 AM

Eh, I was late in editing. I did think of something. See above.

--------------------
Fellow of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. - Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow

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funkypudding
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: mafafu]
      #2621834 - 05/26/04 07:57 AM

Danke. And 8 is the number of Earth Bones, right? What other significance does this number have?

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Lore? Why not?

Jesus saves, but Eris is better in bed.

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B
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: funkypudding]
      #2622269 - 05/26/04 09:49 AM

In my opinion, 8 has (or used to have) a lot of significance in TES Lore. The Staff of Chaos was broken into 8 pieces (The game Arena). There used to be 8 major providences that you could choose a character from (that changed with Morrowind). There were 8 divines (Tiber Septim was added in Morrowind to now make 9). The Numidium supposedly did 8 things for the Psijics.

Can anyone think of anymore?

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~B

Assistant Librarian at The Imperial Library

Forum Scholars Guild | The Modern Adventurer

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Vireyar
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: mafafu]
      #2623070 - 05/26/04 02:58 PM

About the only number I'm familiar with is 11. From one of my many <1k scribblings:

--

Hortator and Sharmat, one and one, eleven, an inelegant number. Which of the ones is the more important? Could you ever tell if they switched places? I can and that is why you will need me. - Sermon 11

One and one, not two but eleven - easier to see as a numeral: 11. Not combined as 2, but standing side by side. Impossible to tell if they were ever to switch places (unless you're Vehk); besides Hortator and Sharmat, also brings to mind the Enantiomorph (I think Karnath suggested that? Pozzo? or someone else? surely not my original thought).

--------------------
Greater Dwemer Ruins - more rusted cogs, homocidal Animunculi and neon lights than you can shake a stick at.
GDR Aleft - You can't expect it to not be flooded, really.

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mafafu
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: Vireyar]
      #2625229 - 05/27/04 06:36 AM

~1~

One is the Sideways Wheel, the Tower and the shape of the only name of God. It also represents the victor in Sermon 18. Above the Beginning Place is the horizon where only one will stand (this possibly refers to the victor).



--------------------
Fellow of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. - Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow

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funkypudding
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: mafafu]
      #2625802 - 05/27/04 09:15 AM

Wait, capitol G god? As in the creator god?

--------------------
Lore? Why not?

Jesus saves, but Eris is better in bed.

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Vykromond
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: mafafu]
      #2625932 - 05/27/04 09:57 AM

Quote:

Actually Sermon 29 holds quite a bit on numerology that may not have been covered in that thread:

Quote:



The Scripture of the Numbers:

1. The Dragon Break, or the Tower. 1
2. The Enantiomorph. 68
3. The Invisible Gate, ALMSIVI. 112
4. The Corners of House of Troubles. 242
5. The Corners of the World. 100
6. The Walking Ways. 266
7. The Sword at the Center. 39
8. The Wheel, or the Eight Givers. 484
9. The Missing. 11
10. The Tribes of the Altmer. 140
11. The Number of the Master. 102
12. The Heavens. 379
13. The Serpent. 36
14. The King's Cough. 32
15. The Redeeming Force. 110
16. The Acceptable Blasphemes. 12
17. The Hurling Disk. 283
18. The Egg, or Six Times the Wise.
19. The Provisional House. 258
20. The Lunar Lattice. 425
21. The Womb. 13
22. Unknown. 453
23. The Hollow Prophet. 54
24. The Star Wound. 44
25. The Emperor. 239
26. The Rogue Plane. 81
27. The Secret Fire. 120
28. The Drowned Lamp. 8
29. The Captive Sage. 217
30. The Scarab. 10
31. The Listening Frame. 473
32. The False Call. 7
33. The Anticipations. 234
34. The Lawless Grammar. 2
35. The Prison-Shirt. 191
36. The Hours. 364




Notice things like, '3. The Invisible Gate' which Vivec calls triangular. And 4 is the Corners of the House of Troubles. 13 is the Serpent (the Thriteenth constellation). 17 is the Hurling Disk, covering in depth in Solin's study, I believe. It just may be that they all mean something.




I would go a little farther and say that I am nearly convinced that they all do. "The Wheel, or the Eight Givers," "The Egg, or Six Times the Wise" (6x3=18!), "The Walking Ways" all have known meanings, in addition to the ones given meanings in your post.

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~V

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Attrebus
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: Vykromond]
      #2626175 - 05/27/04 11:25 AM

The Dragon Break, or the Tower. - 1, or I if you prefer.
The Enantiomorph. - One being that is two.
The Invisible Gate, ALMSIVI. - The three members of the Tribunal.
The Corners of House of Troubles. - Numbered four.
The Corners of the World. - Vivec and the Hortator visit the East, North and West. They do not venture South, but go back to Red Mountain. Five corners of the world perhaps?
The Walking Ways. - The number of walking ways is six.
The Sword at the Center. - Not sure about the number seven here.
The Wheel, or the Eight Givers. - Eight is the number of Aedra that created the Mundus.

Perhaps more later.

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Remember the 4th of First Seed - Dusk and Dusk.

A day devoted to Scholarly Pursuits and Truth.
And Stri'Ker, who died for these - May he be remembered always.

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Nigedo
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: Attrebus]
      #2626270 - 05/27/04 11:55 AM

LOL. This is fun.

18. The Egg...

The Egg is used as a metaphor for both the structure of the universe and the Heart of Lorkhan. Within this number are combined the 8 spokes and 1 Heart that underpin the Wheel.

This makes nine bones, and

9. The Missing.

is the bone that is neglected in worship by the world at large, i.e. Lorkhan.


17. The Hurling Disk.

"In this world and others EIGHTEEN less one (the victor) is the magical disk, hurled to reach heaven by violence." Sermon 18

17 is the condition created when One, the Victor, 'escapes' 18, the Egg.

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Dean of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec

The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ

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Attrebus
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: Nigedo]
      #2626553 - 05/27/04 01:47 PM

Here's a few more (with some additions from above):
1. The Dragon Break, or the Tower. - 1, or I if you prefer.
2. The Enantiomorph. - One being that is two.
3. The Invisible Gate, ALMSIVI. - The three members of the Tribunal.
4. The Corners of House of Troubles. - Numbered four.
5. The Corners of the World. - Vivec and the Hortator visit the East, North and West. They do not venture South, but go back to Red Mountain. Five corners of the world perhaps?
6. The Walking Ways. - The number of walking ways is six.
7. The Sword at the Center.
8. The Wheel, or the Eight Givers. - Eight is the number of Aedra that created the Mundus.
9. The Missing. - is the bone that is neglected in worship by the world at large, i.e. Lorkhan.
10. The Tribes of the Altmer.
11. The Number of the Master. - 11, 1 and 1 is the number of the Master.
12. The Heavens. - The number of Constellations visible in the Heavens.
13. The Serpent. - Thirteenth Constellation.
14. The King's Cough.
15. The Redeeming Force.
16. The Acceptable Blasphemes.
17. The Hurling Disk. - "In this world and others EIGHTEEN less one (the victor) is the magical disk, hurled to reach heaven by violence." Sermon 18

17 is the condition created when One, the Victor, 'escapes' 18, the Egg.
18. The Egg, or Six Times the Wise. - Six times the wise (3 Tribunal) is 18. Or The Egg is used as a metaphor for both the structure of the universe and the Heart of Lorkhan. Within this number are combined the 8 spokes and 1 Heart that underpin the Wheel.
19. The Provisional House.
20. The Lunar Lattice. - Two moons and zero live, since they are the dead body of Lorkhan. (?)
21. The Womb.
22. Unknown. - Err, two ducks swimming?
23. The Hollow Prophet.
24. The Star Wound.
25. The Emperor. - Uriel Septim VII ( 2 + 5 = 7). A stretch?
26. The Rogue Plane.
27. The Secret Fire.
28. The Drowned Lamp.
29. The Captive Sage.
30. The Scarab.
31. The Listening Frame.
32. The False Call.
33. The Anticipations. - 3 members of the Tribunal and 3 Anticipations.
34. The Lawless Grammar.
35. The Prison-Shirt.
36. The Hours. - The number of chapters in Vivec's book of hours perhaps?

Feel free to add, change or just plain tell me I've had too much moon sugar...

--------------------
Remember the 4th of First Seed - Dusk and Dusk.

A day devoted to Scholarly Pursuits and Truth.
And Stri'Ker, who died for these - May he be remembered always.

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funkypudding
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: Attrebus]
      #2626676 - 05/27/04 02:41 PM



I dont know what half of those things are. I am afraid.

--------------------
Lore? Why not?

Jesus saves, but Eris is better in bed.

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mafafu
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: Attrebus]
      #2626781 - 05/27/04 03:18 PM

Quote:

16. The Acceptable Blasphemes.




I wonder if this one refers to Oblivion or the Daedra Princes-- 16 Princes and 16 voids. I'm not sure why they would be called Acceptable Blasphemes though. Well, I suppose the Blaspheme makes sense, but I'm not sure about the Acceptable part.

--------------------
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We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. - Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow

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Attrebus
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: mafafu]
      #2626825 - 05/27/04 03:33 PM

hmm, that does make some sense. The Daedra could be seen as Blasphemous towards the Aedra. The Dunmer believe that the Daedra are their Ancestors, so, the Daedra Princes could be acceptable against the Aedra. Or something.

I'll add it to the list! Any others?

--------------------
Remember the 4th of First Seed - Dusk and Dusk.

A day devoted to Scholarly Pursuits and Truth.
And Stri'Ker, who died for these - May he be remembered always.

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mafafu
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Re: Elder Scrolls Numerology [Re: Attrebus]
      #2626900 - 05/27/04 04:10 PM

26. The Rogue Plane

Baan Dar is known as the rogue plane and the thief or trickster god in some religions. I'm not sure how 26 relates to it. Trickster, though, has me wandering...

--------------------
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We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. - Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow

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