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Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited
      #2880266 - 08/02/04 06:57 PM

I have opened my current project's esp in MW Enchanted Editor to clean it from those GMST before playing. Now, I saw that a whole lot of other cells far away from Solstheim, where I changed cells, suddenly got marked as changed (namely Bitter Coast, Westgash and unspecified ones(wtf?)). I have never ever touched those cells while building, so I'm a bit confused now Anybody has an idea, why that happened? Also, would it be safe to delete the entries of those cells with MWEE?

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Grumpy
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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2880425 - 08/02/04 07:38 PM

I've had this happen, but not like you have. Mine usually occured when I "mass" moved a bunch of objects and accidently picked up stuff from adjoining cells.

I use TESAME, but I suppose the same will hold true with whatever you're using: Make a back-up of the original then remove the cells and see what happens. If it looks like everything is ok, proceed. If not, go back to your back-up.

Only other thing might be that you have changed a particular object that would be common to those cells... Tree maybe, or something else???

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Soar182
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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2880546 - 08/02/04 08:03 PM

I noticed like 11 to 13 cells from Bitter coast and west gash regions that I did not change.
They showed up in the details part of the CS.
I did not check to see if they were marked * for a change in the Cell view window.
I deleted them and they Have not come back yet.
I noticed it like 3 weeks ago but I did not see any posts so I figured I would wait to see if anyone else had the problem.
I also have not been able to make it happen again.
I am making a Morrowind only plug in. I have both expansions.

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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: Soar182]
      #2880608 - 08/02/04 08:19 PM

Quote:


I noticed like 11 to 13 cells from Bitter coast and west gash regions that I did not change.
They showed up in the details part of the CS.
I did not check to see if they were marked * for a change in the Cell view window.
I deleted them and they Have not come back yet.





I sometimes get a bunch of them when I merge plugins. The Details list shows the cells, but doesn't list any changes made for those cells.

I'm pretty sure it's always the same batch of cells: I kept track for a while, but stopped worrying about it a long time ago. (I don't have a list of the cells anymore.)

I figure it's just one of those weird glitches. It seems to be completely harmless, so I just clean the cells from the Details list (but only cells that don't have any changes listed).

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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2880833 - 08/02/04 09:24 PM

Now this is going to be interesting. For reference I took a screenshot of what MWEE lists. I compared the coordinates from MWEE and CS (see Region Paint). The unnamed cells from that list are those Wilderness cells you see South and West of Solstheim, plus the one far West to the Bitter coast. The others all are on the West coast of the Mainland, on the water-land-frontier.

As I'm writing this I just notice, that this data doesn't matter at all, hehe. It may give a hint on glitch-mechanics though. Dinkum's mentioning of merging got me thinking. I forgot I proceeded on a modular way to build my current project and merged the modules (restarted several times building, so I forgot, what I did at the beginning:)) However, I loaded another plugin into MWEE (Rhedd's Heads merged to one file, which I never bothered to check for dirt) and lo! references to cells, and unsurprisingly they were the same as in my current plugin (minus the BM-added Wilderness-cells). So I assume, it is indeed safe to remove those entries. Guess, it's not only always a new functionability of the CS you learn by progressing with modding, but a new bug too.


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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2880924 - 08/02/04 09:59 PM

Quote:


Now this is going to be interesting. For reference I took a screenshot of what MWEE lists. I compared the coordinates from MWEE and CS (see Region Paint). The unnamed cells from that list are those Wilderness cells you see South and West of Solstheim, plus the one far West to the Bitter coast. The others all are on the West coast of the Mainland, on the water-land-frontier.





I just re-merged a couple of plugins I had merged recently and remembered as having those extra cells in the merged .esp (which I promptly cleaned), and I got the usualy suspects.

Comparing to your screenshot:

I don't have the two Hirstaang Forest cells or the Elin's House cell, but the other nineteen cells are an exact match to what I have.

As I said, from memory I'm pretty sure those ninteteen cells are the same ones I always get.

When I clean extra cell listings, I'm always careful to only clean ones that only list the cell name itself, without listing any actual changed data. (When I unexpectedly see a cell listed with changes that I don't remember making, I investigate before cleaning the cell from the .esp file.)

As long as you're careful to only clean cells that don't list any actual changes, it should be safe.

Edit:

For reference, I'll go ahead and put the list of cells here.

(-12,3)
(-12,2)
(-12,1)
(-13,4)
(-13,3)
(-13,2)
(-13,1)
(-14,5)
(-14,4)
(-14,2)
(-15,7)
(-15,-8)
(-16,8)
(-16,7)
(-19,15)
(-19,14)
(-20,15)
(-28,24)
(-29,23)

As far as I remember, that's the same list of cells I've always seen when this happens after I merge .esp files.

Edited by DinkumThinkum (08/02/04 10:11 PM)

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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2880989 - 08/02/04 10:21 PM

As I've seen, all those cells are without any further data, except the Forest and Elin's House cells, which are mine Based on your experiences, I feel even more safe to remove those entries now. Thanks very much for sharing
I have the feeling, there's lots of surprise waiting for us when examining mods on our HDs with this new knowledge.

Btw, is there something like a unresolved-bug-list for MW/CS out there? Might be a handy tool...

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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2881025 - 08/02/04 10:37 PM

I always clean mods I download before they get anywhere near my game, and I know I've cleaned those nineteen cells from a few mods.

Ghan's Scripting for Dummies documents many of the bugs and quirks in the scripting language that people have discovered, but I don't know of any similar documentation for non-script related problems.

Edit:

There are a number of web sites and threads that document specific problems: my Dirty Saves thread, Argent's GMST info on his web site, Shadowsong's page on doubling problems, etc. But I don't know of any comprehensive listing.

What I do when I run into something weird is to search this forum and SFD; most of the time I'll find some information about it that I had overlooked before.

Edited by DinkumThinkum (08/02/04 10:44 PM)

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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2881249 - 08/02/04 11:41 PM

TESTool will automatically remove the culprits.

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Soar182
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Re: Unchanged cells marked as changed/edited [Re: ]
      #2882394 - 08/03/04 09:24 AM

Quote:

I sometimes get a bunch of them when I merge plugins. The Details list shows the cells, but doesn't list any changes made for those cells.

I'm pretty sure it's always the same batch of cells: I kept track for a while, but stopped worrying about it a long time ago. (I don't have a list of the cells anymore.)

I figure it's just one of those weird glitches. It seems to be completely harmless, so I just clean the cells from the Details list (but only cells that don't have any changes listed).





Merging plugins is what I was doing. It is easy to fix if it happens.
I may test a little later.
The plugin I noticed the problem with was merged with another plugin.
But I also use combine loaded plugins with only one plugin just to make a backup.
I do not think I get the extra cells unless I am merging 2 or more plugins.

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