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Srikandi
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SFD Errata
      #1721358 - 08/18/03 09:26 AM

Like many folks here, I tend to treat MW Scripting for Dummies by Ghan Buri Ghan as a constant and infallible reference. However, the current version does contain a few errors and/or ommissions that I've learned about on this forum. I've been trying to maintain a list of these as they come up, but it occurs to me that others who don't surf this forum as obsessively as I do may need the info too, so perhaps we should try to preserve it here. I'd like to see this thread pinned, but not locked, so it can be updated as needed.

1) CellChanged is set when you ENTER a cell, not when you LEAVE a cell (Klinn)

2) NPCs not in the current cell can be referenced in script ONLY IF the player has visited the cell with the NPC... maybe recently. (Observed for modMercantile (Iudas), ForceGreeting (Srikandi, Klinn, Cortex, The other Felix))

3) If statements CAN be used in dialogue results (Argent)

4) You CAN use variables with Add/RemoveItem, but only in dialogue results (Argent)

5) Incorrect syntax for PlaceAtPC: SFD gives "PlaceAtPC, ItemID, direction, distance, count", but it should be "PlaceAtPC, ItemID, count, distance, direction" (as the TESCS Help File says) (forget who pointed this out; may have actually figured it out myself)

6) SFD says "Removing items that are not present in the inventory seems to be safe", but actually this will lead to the encumbrance bug (DinkumThinkum)

7) There's a hidden global variable, DaysPassed, that contains the number of days since the game started (JOG)


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Dan_Wheeler
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1721460 - 08/18/03 10:17 AM

JOG mentioned Face. Apparently it's a hybrid of Rotate Z, foo and SetAngle Z. Syntax is apparently Face z_rot, time. Makes an NPC face a direction and how fast they turn that way. Apparently interrupts current animations; I've used to on Wandering NPCs and they stop, Face wherever, then continue on wherever they were wandering to as soon as the Facing movement is over.

-Dan!!

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melian
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Dan_Wheeler]
      #1721755 - 08/18/03 12:06 PM

Don't know if anyone else has tested this, but according to SfD, SetJournalIndex should work on basic MW - it doesn't, it only works with the expansions.

Edit: Just discovered that DaysPassed isn't in basic MW, it's added with the expansions.

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Edited by melian (08/18/03 06:49 PM)

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Dan_Wheeler
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: melian]
      #1722163 - 08/18/03 02:30 PM

Also, daysPassed isn't hidden; it's just not documented in MWSfD. It's right there in the list of Globals. I assume it's incrimented by Main.

-Dan!!

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Elim
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1724672 - 08/19/03 07:58 AM

not of much use, but GetMasserPhase und GetSecundaPhase in interiors are not always 0 as said in sfd, but contain the phase that was correct when you last visited an exterior cell...

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Argent
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1725231 - 08/19/03 11:34 AM

Quote:

) You CAN use variables with Add/RemoveItem, but only in dialogue results



I should point out that it only works with global variables.

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Argent
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1736103 - 08/23/03 12:24 AM

Addendum to prior post: neither 3) nor 4) should be accredited to myself.
3) was first seen (by me) in an early version of Blood & Gore.
I have since pinned semi-frequent CTDs on using this techique. However, the CTD is intermittent and not always consistantly reproducable.

4) was first posted by JOG.

SFD and the CS Help file give the following range of a long variable:
"-2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647 ( long signed integer)"

While the sizes given are the correct upper and lower bounds limit, the CS only seems to accept values up to 2147483520.

Also, the maximum amount I have been able to add using AddItem, var is 65534 (using a long var=2147483520).

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Srikandi
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Argent]
      #1736861 - 08/23/03 05:43 AM

Great... and since I've been informed that this thread is in danger of being pinned, I'll add this.

SFD defines the dialogue function "Talked to PC" as follows: "This is 1 if the speaker has ever talked to the player and 0 otherwise. You can use this to have someone say something the first time you speak with them – or for our scripting purposes to mark this person as "known" by the player."

It seems that Talked to PC will reset to 0 if the player has spent 72 game hours out of the NPC's cell.

This time limit also applies to other NPC-related functions such as "forceGreeting": the NPC is available for a forceGreeting reference from a different cell only for 72 game hours.

As a workaround, if you use PositionCell on the NPC once per day (even without changing their location), the 72 hour time limit no longer applies.

Time limit info from Cortex.

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Srikandi
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1739436 - 08/24/03 10:10 AM

Here's another one: SFD says about SetPos: "With Tribunal, this function accepts float variables." This is true, but in exteriors, it will only work in the currently loaded area (the current cell plus 2-3 cells around the current cell). It can't be used to move something to an arbitrary exterior cell.

Don't know who to credit this to, but lots of people seem to know it, including JOG, bigchief, hessi9, and Grumpy. Now I do too.

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JOG
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1741450 - 08/25/03 04:57 AM

AFTERSHOCK_81 just told me how to use setpos to teleport the player to any exterior cell: Add a FIXME to the end of the script.


Additem, var:

It doesn't work when you set the global variable in the same dialogue-result. Either set the variable before starting dialogue, or in a dialogue-line that precedes the "Additem"-line (e.g Greeting).


Another thing: I'm not sure if it's included in SFD, but AFAIK you can use any "console" command in scripts, even the shortcuts, So you could Use "COE 0 0" instead of "player->position 0,0,1000" or switch off skies and weather with "TS"


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JOG
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Dan_Wheeler]
      #1741467 - 08/25/03 05:05 AM

Quote:

Syntax is apparently Face z_rot, time.




It's "Face x, y" And it works with variables. So a script like this makes a NPC watch each of the player's steps:

set px to player->getpos x
set py to player->getpos y
face px, py


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Dan_Wheeler
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: JOG]
      #1744197 - 08/26/03 02:10 AM

Ahhh... Interesting. To phrase it a little differently:

Face X, Y

(X,Y) is a location and this function makes an NPC turn to "Face" that location.

Can you add a Z coord?

-Dan!!

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GhanBuriGhan
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1747291 - 08/27/03 01:19 AM

Hi all,

reading this list I think I had most of the items mentioned here on my revision list for version 6 (thanks to input from the community), that I wanted to release post Bloodmoon, in fact most of them are corrected in my unreleased current version. As it turned out I got married, finished my university degree, had a very hot summer and havent played MW for two months now. And I still havent bought bloodmoon, although I think its out in europe now?
Anyway, I dont promise anything, but if Bloodmoon can grab my attention back for MW, I will also release the corrected and expanded version.

Has there been a thread listing the new material in bloodmoon?



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Argent
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: GhanBuriGhan]
      #1747336 - 08/27/03 01:46 AM

Quote:

got married, finished my university degree



Congrats! I'm halfway to achieving both of these things myself.

New Bloodmoon functions can be found here. It is worthwhile reading; there are some 'issues' (like BM breaking the Tribunal main quest (I think; don't have BM either)) with installing BM, and LDones has a fix esp for this.

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Srikandi
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Argent]
      #1748713 - 08/27/03 10:40 AM

There is an official patch that fixes that, and some (but not all) of the other things LDones mentions.

Thanks for checking in, GBG, and for your invaluable contributions to all of us. If you have other wisdom already in your revision but not in this thread, would you mind posting it so we can use it in the meantime? If you don't have time for that, would you mind e-mailing your draft to somebody trustworthy who could extract the changes and post them? I'd be willing to do it if you don't have any better options.

Sad to see people struggling when the info to end their pain is available somewhere.

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DinkumThinkum
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1750587 - 08/28/03 04:50 AM

Just remembered this one...

In the table of Game Settings, near the end of SFD, the entry for "fFatigueBase" gives a default value of "1.2500" and describes it as "How much fatigue you lose while walking".


I tried experimenting with this value earlier this year, and changing it didn't seem to have any effect on fatigue loss while walking.

Even when I increased it to 100 it didn't seem to have any apparent effect on fatigue loss.

But it did let me jump from Seyda Neen to Ebonheart without getting hurt.


Here's my original post about this:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tesconstsethelp&Number=1106251&Forum=CatSearch-5&Words=ffatigue&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=100&Old=allposts&Main=1106251&Search=true#Post1106251


I haven't experimented with that setting since.

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DinkumThinkum
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1750644 - 08/28/03 05:08 AM

Just did a quick test with my first level test character. Setting fFatigueBase to 100 still has the same effect, with Bloodmoon and the latest patch installed. Jumped from Seyda Neen to just outside Vivec, and wound up with over a thousand health.

I'm guessing that the health is an overflow or wraparound effect: falling out of the sky sends it so far negative that it 'wraps around' to a high positive number.

But I don't have the foggiest notion why increasing fFatigueBase lets me jump way up in the sky.

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Srikandi
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1760710 - 09/01/03 09:14 AM

Here's something on "setscale", from JOG (that reliable fount of wisdom):

Quote:

You shouldn't call "setscale" in every frame, at least not in exteriors or other FPS-critical situations.

But keep in mind that the scale will be reset to the 0.5 - 2.0 frame when you reload. So don't use a done-flag to call it only once. Either call it regularly (about all 10 frames) or test for "getscale" and reset the scale when it doesn't fit.





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Argent
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1761384 - 09/01/03 03:13 PM

Not exactly scripting-specific but;
While making my latest mod I have found that if a creature dies with a curse type spell on it, then any other creature of that type you encounter from that point on will also be effected by that curse.

This is easy to fix; simply call RemoveSpell in an OnDeath clause. But the fact that this happens in the first place suggests to me that the spell is added to the creature definition, and not just that particular instance of the creature.

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Cortex
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1761922 - 09/01/03 10:30 PM

The once per day positioncell trick to get round npc's breaking their connection to you after 72 hours seems to require the cell you send them to not be the cell where you initially met them.

This either implies it must not be their editor starting cell or that it must be a cell that you have not visited. In my fix I have an interior I send them to for this purpose so either explanation could be why it works.
So basically after you have met them they get sent there each day even though they are already there after the first sending.

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Edited by Cortex (09/01/03 10:34 PM)

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DinkumThinkum
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1841396 - 10/07/03 10:47 AM

Some more feedback for SFD:

1. "PlaceitemCell" is so broken it's almost useless: reported by Jog, some minor testing by me.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tesconstsethelp&Number=1791566&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=

2. Leading underscores on Object IDs and variables have erratic results in the script editor: in some places they work fine, in other places the script editor chokes on them (usually with error messages that don't have anything to do with the actual problem...).

For example:

PlaceItemCell, "_dt_Racial_ClothierNord", "Vivec, Agrippina Herennia: Clothier", -348, 48, -221, 0

works fine, but

_dt_Racial_ClothierNord -> PositionCell, -348, 48, -221, 0, "Vivec, Agrippina Herennia: Clothier"

causes error messages.


At least one of the standard guides or tutorials on modding recommends using leading underscores for Object IDs so they sort to the top of the Object window lists and thus are easy to find. I followed that advice, and so have a lot of other people (from looking at other people's mods).

Leading underscores for variables also are unpredictable in scripts: someplaces they work, other places they don't.

**** So my policy now is to NOT use leading underscores for anything in the Construction Set; I don't need to waste any more time chasing down weird bugs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rest of this is pretty basic stuff that I'm sure is obvious to the experienced scripters. But they were all minor stumbling blocks for my first newbie attempt at writing a new script from scratch.

Apologies to GhanBuriGhan if any of this is covered in SFD and I missed it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Using 'StopScript' on a global script resets any local variables used by that script. Makes sense once you know about it.

4. If you use 'StopScript' from inside the global script you're terminating, it doesn't actually terminate the script immediately. Instead, the script continues executing to the 'End' statement, and then terminates.

For example:

begin dt_PlaceRacialItems

if ( DT_RacialItemsPlaced == 1 )
StopScript dt_PlaceRacialItems
endif

...Do stuff here.

set DT_RacialItemsPlaced to 1

end dt_PlaceRacialItems

Will actually execute the "...Do stuff here." lines twice, not just once.

Adding a 'Return' statement in the 'if... endif' structure will exit the script immediately. (There was a logical reason for putting the 'StopScript' up there, not at the end of the script. )

5. Tribunal Start Scripts in a plug-in start executing each time the game is loaded. (I assume the ones that come with the game do too, but I wasn't testing those.)

6. If a Tribunal Start Script is terminated with a 'StopScript', it will start up again the next time the game is loaded.

7. Just bumped into this one a minute ago: erratic acceptance of quote marks.

In this line

"Player"->RemoveItem "_bl_altmer_leggings" 1

the quotes around "Player" are fine.

But in this line

Set ObjectCount to ( "Player" -> GetItemCount , "_bl_breton_catsuit")

the quotes around "Player" cause errors in the script editor.

Note sure what the specific rule here is; I just fiddled with the line until I figured out the errors stopped when I deleted the quote marks.

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Grumpy
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1841589 - 10/07/03 12:26 PM

There was a post quite awhile back that suggested that using quotes around objects with leading underscores was mandatory (not using them caused problems). Never use them myself, so have never run into any problems with this which means I can't verify.

One I just posted, about a useful variable for companions (packguars specifically) that wasn't included in SFD, and was buried (literally) in the CS help file (I originally found it after installation of Tribunal, but for some reason, it seems to have been removed from the CS help file in BM):

short StayOutside
set StayOutside to 1

When used in script, causes whoever it's assigned to to automatically remain (and wait) outside of any interior the player may enter (automatically rejoins upon return).

Quote:

3. Using 'StopScript' on a global script resets any local variables used by that script. Makes sense once you know about it.

4. If you use 'StopScript' from inside the global script you're terminating, it doesn't actually terminate the script immediately. Instead, the script continues executing to the 'End' statement, and then terminates.




Nice stuff there Mr. Thinkum (whole thread is). I was wondering why companion kept doing things twice!


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DinkumThinkum
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Grumpy]
      #1841708 - 10/07/03 01:22 PM

Quote:


There was a post quite awhile back that suggested that using quotes around objects with leading underscores was mandatory (not using them caused problems). Never use them myself, so have never run into any problems with this which means I can't verify.





Kicks self (hard)!

Completely forgot:

"7. Just bumped into this one a minute ago: erratic acceptance of quote marks."


Actually, I ran into that the same time as the leading underscores problem. I TRIED using quotes to get the editor to accept the leading underscore, and it complained about them.

(I discovered the others a while back (within a few days of the "PlaceItemCell" problem thread), but didn't get around to posting them until the editor and I had an argument about quote marks earlier this evening.)

Anyway, my solution is to swear off using leading underscores for anything.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If GhanBuriGhan isn't going to have a chance to update SFD, is there any possibility one of the knowledgeable scripting gurus could collect all the info in this thread as an 'add-on' errata text file zipped up with SFD?

That might make life a bit easier for other scripters, so they don't wind up wasting a lot of time rediscovering quirks that others have already discovered.

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Argent
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1842666 - 10/08/03 01:58 AM

Regarding Targeted Scripts; SFD says that you can target a global script using either ObjectID-> StartScript, or calling startscript from the dialogue results box. While both are true, they don't quite work as expected when used together; from the results box, 'ObjectID-> StartScript' seems to attach the script to the NPC calling the dialogue and not the referenced object.

This became evident when I was writing my sparring scripts; I had two scripts, both of which checked character stats implicitly (ie. without ObjectID->). These scripts were both started from the dialogue results (one startscript, one ObjectID-> StartScript). It took a long time to debug the fact that ALL stat checks (from both scripts) where returning values from the character that had the dialogue response.

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DinkumThinkum
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1843034 - 10/08/03 05:22 AM

Just ran into a minor bug with message boxes:

If you pop up a message box with an 'ok' button when a saved game is loaded immediately after running Morrowind, you won't have a mouse pointer to click on the 'ok' button to get rid of the message box.

Edit: forgot to mention that the game also keeps running while the message box is displayed; it doesn't pause as it normally does.


You can right-click to get into Menu mode, and then you'll have a mouse pointer to clear the box with.

This only happens the first time you load a save after running Morrowind; if you load a save from within the game, you do get a mouse pointer to click the 'ok' button with. So apparently it's some sort of initialization problem.

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Edited by DinkumThinkum (10/08/03 09:03 AM)

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Striker
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1846420 - 10/09/03 11:42 AM

Just a quick update:

I've emailed Ghan and he's made a few changes based on some of the feedback he's been emailed.

He has also agreed to let me add the changes mentioned here. I will try to make sure the changes are made in the correct places, and I may even add a 'Things you should be aware of' type section for things that don't fall into any categories easily (Though that may be small).

It will probably take me a week or two to add the changes (thanks to moving house this weekend), however, I'll keep an eye on this thread and add anything else people come up with.

Are there any other threads I should be aware of?

-Striker

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Edited by Striker (10/09/03 11:44 AM)

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DinkumThinkum
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Striker]
      #1846504 - 10/09/03 12:20 PM

Quote:


He has also agreed to let me add the changes mentioned here. I will try to make sure the changes are made in the correct places, and I may even add a 'Things you should be aware of' type section for things that don't fall into any categories easily (Though that may be small).

It will probably take me a week or two to add the changes (thanks to moving house this weekend), however, I'll keep an eye on this thread and add anything else people come up with.

Are there any other threads I should be aware of?





Great! Glad to here that some one is taking off with this.


No idea what Ghan has on the RemoveItem encumbrance bug, so here's a link to the thread about that:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tesconstsethelp&Number=1333654&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=


The other Felix discovered some problems with the Unarmored skill. Not sure if that belongs in SFD, but it probably belongs somewhere... Here's that thread:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tesconstsethelp&Number=1787499&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=

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Striker
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1846564 - 10/09/03 12:55 PM

Thanks, I've added these to the 'Things to add if they aren't already there' list.

Keep 'em coming.

-Striker

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GhanBuriGhan
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Striker]
      #1846897 - 10/09/03 03:58 PM

I have added most of the issues discussed here to the document yesterday and sent it to Striker, who I am sure will spot the rest. This was on my to-do list for a long time and I apologize for keeping you waiting for so long (and thanks to Striker for offering his help and reminding me of this).
Note that since Bloodmoon still doesnt sell here in switzerland (bloody ubisoft!). I have no info on Bloodmoon related script functions or changes. If there are any, let us know.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: GhanBuriGhan]
      #1846945 - 10/09/03 04:41 PM

Only one new script function (PlaceAtMe, works just like PlaceAtPC). Might be useful though to add the info about how to use the "blank" summon spell effects... isn't there a thread around here somewhere about that?

Anyway, thanks, Ghan & Striker!

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1846982 - 10/09/03 05:10 PM

Quote:

Only one new script function (PlaceAtMe, works just like PlaceAtPC). Might be useful though to add the info about how to use the "blank" summon spell effects... isn't there a thread around here somewhere about that?

Anyway, thanks, Ghan & Striker!




From this thread:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1461858&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

come the following, all reportedly new in Bloodmoon (in a post by Duncann):

GetPCTraveling
GetPCInJail
PlaceAtMe
SetWerewolfAcrobatics
TurnMoonWhite
TurnMoonRed
GetWerewolfKills
IsWerewolf
UndoWerewolf
BecomeWerewolf



That thread has a lot of general grumbling; I think if you read as far as WormGod's post you'll have most of the useful information. (Wormy's warning definitely should be included.)

Edit: After reading further in that thread, I would suggest at least skimming all the way down: they come up with some other things new in Bloodmoon and some Tribunal things I don't remember seeing in SFD v.5. Most of it's over my head (DT the scripting newbie!).


"PlaceAtMe, works just like PlaceAtPC": just like, except it's not just for the PC anymore.

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Edited by DinkumThinkum (10/09/03 05:23 PM)

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1847052 - 10/09/03 06:12 PM

All right, I should have added "mutatis mutandis" -- thought it was understood

You got me on those other functions, though -- guess I stopped reading that thread prematurely! Wonder how I've been getting along all this time without "TurnMoonRed"?

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: GhanBuriGhan]
      #1847080 - 10/09/03 06:37 PM

Argent just posted (in another thread) a link to a fairly short thread with some informaton about 'MenuTest', which is just listed as 'undocumented', with no further information, in SFD v.5.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tesconstsethelp&Number=1741583&Forum=tesconstsethelp&Words=MenuTest&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=6months&Main=1741583&Search=true#Post1741583

And if I haven't said it before (or even if I have ): many many thanks for all the effort you've put into SFD.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1849820 - 10/10/03 07:32 PM

A few things:

Face package (mentioned earlier in this thread) appears to be broken or at least not functioning properly in some cases. (haven't been able to make it work without using trickery).

GetEffect function appears to be broken with fatigue related effects. (and perhaps with some others too).

SetAtStart command doesn't necessarily put an object in its editor defined position ( as SFD claims).

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Striker]
      #1865773 - 10/16/03 04:04 PM

Another one:

From SFD:

"Skills:
Changing weapon and armor skills can be used to change what the NPC wears and what weapon he uses by default."

Apparently that only works for weapons; what armor an NPC wears seems to be based on his initial skills (as seen in the Construction Set), and can't be changed in the game.


Brought up by Vorwoda_the_Black in the following thread; apparently a few other people also knew about this:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1787499&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1865786 - 10/16/03 04:17 PM

Quote:


Here's something on "setscale", from JOG (that reliable fount of wisdom):

Quote:

You shouldn't call "setscale" in every frame, at least not in exteriors or other FPS-critical situations.

But keep in mind that the scale will be reset to the 0.5 - 2.0 frame when you reload. So don't use a done-flag to call it only once. Either call it regularly (about all 10 frames) or test for "getscale" and reset the scale when it doesn't fit.








If it's being used with Tribunal or Bloodmoon, a start script could be used to unreset it each time the game is reloaded. That would save CPU cycles, since the script would only execute once per load.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1865809 - 10/16/03 05:00 PM

Well, I'm all moved and I have a copy of the latest version of the SFD from GhanBuriGhan. I'll start working on these changes over the next few days.

Keep adding info, 'cus I'll keep checking this thread.

-Striker

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Striker]
      #1868664 - 10/17/03 03:58 PM

Just bumped into a thread about another problem that doesn't seem to be mentioned in SFD...

Credit to Chris_K, who figured this out:


If you put global variables in the text of a book or scroll (using text defines), accessing or changing those variables while the book is open will cause a CTD.


Here's the thread:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tesconstsethelp&Number=1608879&Forum=tesconstsethelp&Words=pcrace&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=100&Old=allposts&Main=1604377&Search=true#Post1608879

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1871110 - 10/18/03 10:02 AM

Me again...

If you look at the NPCs in the game who do teleports from dialogue, most (all?) of them don't do the teleport from the results box.

Instead, they use 'StartScript' to run a script that does the teleporting.

This came up in a thread not too long ago, and Emma said that she'd tried using PositionCell in result boxes, but it wasn't reliable: apparently some people were seeing CTDs in some situations. So she switched to using scripts for the teleports.


It might be a good idea to recommend following Bethesda's example and putting the actual teleport commands in a separate script that is called from the NPC's results box after the dialogue window closes.

Look at Almalexia or Asciene Rane (both in Tribunal) for examples. Don't remember if there are any examples of dialogue-based teleport in the original game, but the shipmaster (firemoth_sailor) in Siege of Firemoth does something similar using a local script.

Here's the thread where Emma mentioned this:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tesconstsethelp&Number=1769072&Forum=CatSearch-5&Words=teleport%20npc&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=100&Old=3months&Main=1769072&Search=true#Post1769072

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1896092 - 10/25/03 09:22 PM

Interesting discussion of 'SetDelete and crashes.' in this thread:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1883388&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

Might be useful for adding more 'crash avoidance' tips to the SetDelete section in SFD.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1899004 - 10/26/03 01:29 PM

From SFD;

"GetSoundPlaying, "sound ID" Returns 1 when the specified sound is currently playing. "

This should read:

Returns 1 when the calling object is currently playing the specified sound.

I encountered this in my FistsOFire mod. I have about 80+ global targeted scripts that implicitly call GetSoundPlaying. For testing purposes I placed one of these scripts in the Start Scripts menu, only to find that the script failed to detect the sound playing.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Argent]
      #1913308 - 10/31/03 04:38 AM

Just noticed this while replying to somebody's post:

In the "Cleaning up your mod" section, there's a list which describes the various entries you see on the Details list for .esp files.

Argent's favorite entry, 'GMSTs' (game settings) is missing.

Hmmm....

The list also omits:

CLOT Clothing

BODY Body parts

LEVI Leveled Item list

LEVC Leveled creature list. Edit: checked this in morrowind.esm

ARMO Armor

REGN Region

SPEL Spell

WEAP Weapon

DOOR Door

BOOK Book

ENCH Enchantment

GLOB Global variable

LAND Land

Edit:

SNDG I do not have the foggiest idea what this is, but it's in morrowind.esm. I would guess that's it's some sort of sound data; most of the entries appear to be creatures.

CLAS Class

FACT Faction

RACE Race

ALCH potions

INGR Ingredient

MGEF Magic effect

PROB Probe

REPA Repair item

SKIL Skill

end Edit
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's all I noticed, but here's the whole list from SFD if anybody else wants to help proofread. (And if I listed ommissions that are actually on the list, sorry.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a list of the change indicators found in the details tab:
DIAL – A new or changed topic

INFO – A dialogue response, or journal entry

REFR – a reference of an object that was put into the game world, while MISC, CONT etc. describe the actual Object (even if there is no instance of it placed in the world)

SOUN – A Sound

NPC_ - A new type of NPC, or a changed NPC

CREA – A new creature or a change to a creature

LIGH – A new or changed Light

LTEX – An application of a landscape texture

PGRD – A change to the AI grid

CELL – obvious, signifies a changed cell either indoors or outdoors – in case your mod had nothing to do with that cell you should get rid of it. This affects all changes in that cell automatically, I think automatically

SCRPT – A Script – lots of people leave superfluous "test scripts" in their mods – that's bad style, I think.

MISC – A new or changed miscellaneous object – check names, delete if the change is unrelated to your plugin

ACTI – An activator – see above

CONT – A container – very critical: make sure you only change a new ID (copy of a container), not the original container – or they will all be changed.

STAT – A static object – see above

Careful with... <Just pasted that in to make sure I got the whole list>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And looking at the rest of that section, I now know where I learned how to clean mods from the Details list (Dragonsong's tutorial just says to use TESAME, which (IMNSVHO) is the hard way...). Thanks, Ghan!

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Edited by DinkumThinkum (10/31/03 04:58 AM)

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1913986 - 10/31/03 07:34 AM

I few things I noticed:

SNDG is a Sound Generator record

SCRPT should be SCPT

REFR I'm not familiar with and I can't find it in the ESM files. Perhaps this is only for save games? At any rate, the references in regular plugins are stored as sub-records under a CELL record.


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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Dave Humphrey]
      #1914552 - 10/31/03 10:27 AM

Quote:


SNDG is a Sound Generator record

SCRPT should be SCPT

REFR I'm not familiar with and I can't find it in the ESM files. Perhaps this is only for save games? At any rate, the references in regular plugins are stored as sub-records under a CELL record.





Thanks! Of course, 'Sound Generator record' means about as much to me as SNDG did. (No need to explain; I don't normally mess with sounds.)

SCRPT was a typo; thanks for the catch.


REFR: That's most definitely in the .esm files. Are you looking at the files using the Details list in the Construction Set (which is what the list in SFD is for), or with some other program?

To see REFR in an .esm file, look at it with the Details list from the Construction Set's Data Files window. With the default sort, you'll see tons of them down with the Cell data.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1914573 - 10/31/03 10:35 AM

re: REFR records...I see what you mean now. I was looking at the files in a hex editor. In the raw file format references are stored in multiple sub-records in the CELL record. TESCS must convert these into REFR items in the details view.

Although there is an actual REFR record in save games, not sure exactly what it contains though.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1914607 - 10/31/03 10:44 AM

Quote:

REFR: That's most definitely in the .esm files.



Well, that's about 95% correct. In an ESM/ESP/ESS file the cell reference data is stored in a CELL subrecord called FRMR. For some reason the Details list in the CS changes the record name from FRMR to REFR.
So the records themselves ARE in the .esm files, just under a different name. Perhaps Bethesda figured REFR was a more descriptive name for a a cell reference than FRMR was when trying to figure out what to delete.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Dave Humphrey]
      #1914649 - 10/31/03 10:51 AM

Hmm, I guess it took me 9 minutes to type my post, 'cause that one wasn't there when I last looked.

The REFR record in the savegame file is the PlayerSaveGame record. It holds the player's starting skills and stats, amoung other things.

I also highly recommend Farren's enchanted editor for viewing raw-records; his data interpreter is much better than most others I've used.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1914700 - 10/31/03 11:05 AM

Quote:


In the "Cleaning up your mod" section, there's a list which describes the various entries you see on the Details list for .esp files.





Another one left out:

APPA Apparatus (for alchemy)

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1915403 - 10/31/03 04:03 PM

You'll be pleased to know that I finally found some spare time to update the SFD. Ghan had already put quite a few of the things mentioned in this thread into the doc.

I added details about the Bloodmoon functions, and all that's left is a couple of the newer things in this thread, and the Bloodmoon GMST's. Once Ghan has gone over the changes, it will be released!

-Striker

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Striker]
      #1915426 - 10/31/03 04:17 PM

Quote:

You'll be pleased to know that I finally found some spare time to update the SFD. Ghan had already put quite a few of the things mentioned in this thread into the doc.

I added details about the Bloodmoon functions, and all that's left is a couple of the newer things in this thread, and the Bloodmoon GMST's. Once Ghan has gone over the changes, it will be released!

-Striker






For you and Ghan!

Thanks for the update: I've been resisting the temptation to post bugging you guys about this.

You realize, of course, that Srikandi has started the sort of thread that will never ever die: you and Ghan will be busy with updates and more updates until you're both old and gray.

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1916049 - 11/01/03 01:03 AM

Hello

2 things :
- menutest takes param :
menutest or menutest 0 for closing menu
menutest 3 open stat menu or focus on it
menutest 4 open inventory menu or focus on it
menutest 5 open spell menu or focus on it
menutest 6 open map menu or focus on it

for menutest 3,4,5,6, it's like clicking on the upper right button of the menu

menutest 1 is....
look at this : screenshot

menutest 9 do anything, but what?

- I don't know if you're aware of the number of block ( record ) which is localized in the ess/esp/esm header just here :

screenshot

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Edited by jilin (11/01/03 01:10 AM)

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: jilin]
      #1937788 - 11/07/03 04:42 PM

Hello all,

Striker has done a great job on the manuscript - I hope I can go through the changes this weekend, maybe add the latest findings of the tireless people from this thread, and then I will upload it. Can't promise, though, I have a busy weekend ahead of me.

Again, many thanks to all who have posted here or mailed me, this update is for the most part your achievement.



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Re: SFD Errata [Re: GhanBuriGhan]
      #1938610 - 11/08/03 01:58 AM

I think a *W00T* is definitely in order.

-Dan!!

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1940878 - 11/08/03 04:34 PM

Some Additions

"Hidden global" "Dayspassed" no longer works with Bloodmoon installed. I know for sure that it worked with plain MW and I'm certain that did with Tribunal.


And another way to detect reloading (the most easiest so far):

Code:
if ( ( getjournalindex "dummy" ) != 100 )
Messagebox "You just reloaded, Cheater!!!"
setjournalindex "dummy" 100
endif



"Dummy" is any journal-topic that has no text for index 100.
Setjournalindex will set the index to the new value, no matter if an entry exists for this value or not (useful for simple flags that don't need an own journal-entry) but when you reload, the index will be reset to the highest value of the existing entries that are already in the journal.

The best thing is that it's most easy to use this in dialogue: Send the player to the "test of courage", and set the journalindex in dialogue-result. When the player comes back, and the index differs, then the player has failed the test.


PS:

Jilin:
Great work figuring out the parameters for menutest. Too bad that you can't interrupt dialogue this way...




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Re: SFD Errata [Re: JOG]
      #1940950 - 11/08/03 05:47 PM

Quote:


And another way to detect reloading (the most easiest so far):





Since Tribunal start scripts run every time a saved game is reloaded, those can also be used to detect reloading.

Here's a couple of scripts I came up with for this a while ago, then never used because I decided to do my project a different way.

The first one runs the same code every time the game is loaded or reloaded with the mod installed.

The second one runs one section of code the first time the game is loaded with the mod installed, then a second section of code on all subsequent reloads.

More comments than code, but that's just my way of doing things! (Makes it easier to figure out what it does six months later.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

begin DT_DoOnce_TribStartScript02

;script to demonstrate a 'DoOnce' Tribunal Start Script that runs once
; each time a saved game is loaded with the mod enabled
;by DinkumThinkum

;script executes 'Do Once' code section once
; each time the mod is loaded as part of a game

;start of 'Do Once' code to be run each time a saved game is loaded with this mod enabled.

MessageBox, "You will see this message everytime you load a saved game with this mod enabled.", "OK"

;end of 'Do Once' code.


StopScript DT_DoOnce_TribStartScript02

end DT_DoOnce_TribStartScript02

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

begin DT_DoOnce_TribStartScript01

;script to demonstrate a 'DoOnce' Tribunal Start Script
; by DinkumThinkum

;script executes 'Do Once' code section once, when the mod is loaded
; with a saved game that does not include the mod (or with a new game)

;script executes 'Reload' code section once, each time a save game
; made with the mod is reloaded with the mod enabled

;either code section can be omitted, but all the control structures will still be needed

;Note: BOTH 'StopScripts' are necessary. Trust me...

;DT_DoOnce_TSS01 - Global variable, won't be reset by StopScript (initialized to 0)

if ( DT_DoOnce_TSS01 == 1 )

;start of 'Reload' code, to be run once each time mod is reloaded

MessageBox, "You have loaded this mod with a saved game made with the mod enabled.", "OK"

;end of 'Reload' code

StopScript DT_DoOnce_TribStartScript01
Return
endif


;start of 'Do Once' code, to be run only when the mod is first loaded.

MessageBox, "You have loaded this mod with a saved game that was made without this mod enabled.", "OK"

;end of 'Do Once' code.


set DT_DoOnce_TSS01 to 1
StopScript DT_DoOnce_TribStartScript01

end DT_DoOnce_TribStartScript01

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: SFD Errata [Re: DinkumThinkum]
      #1996004 - 11/26/03 03:30 AM

In the Game Settings part of SFD, it mentions DispTrespassing, and a few other Trespassing settings, but it doesn't explain what they do. This is just conjecture, but from looking at the different values, I'm pretty sure it has to do with sleeping in a bed that's not yours. Thus, trespassing. But I could be wrong.

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Also_Da_Man
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Srikandi]
      #1996089 - 11/26/03 04:07 AM

Quote:

MW Scripting for Dummies by Ghan Buri Ghan




What? Where is this?

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paschors
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: JOG]
      #1996312 - 11/26/03 05:27 AM

Quote:

Some Additions

"Hidden global" "Dayspassed" no longer works with Bloodmoon installed. I know for sure that it worked with plain MW and I'm certain that did with Tribunal.





This is distressing. I just installed Bloodmoon and started using some things. I have a large scripted based on Dayspassed. I will check and see if it is now broken. Hopefully, this report of Bloodmoon breaking it is in error.

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Also_Da_Man
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Also_Da_Man]
      #2022665 - 12/04/03 05:35 AM

Hello? What is "MW Scripting for Dummies"? Where can I get it?

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paschors
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Also_Da_Man]
      #2022733 - 12/04/03 06:06 AM

Quote:

Hello? What is "MW Scripting for Dummies"? Where can I get it?



See the first pinned post in this forum. A link should be there. Otherwise, search the download sites. I think links of the popular download sites is in the top pinned posts on the Morrowind Mod's forum.

Also, I still have not confirmed the dayspassed function. I think I am afraid to so I have been working on other things. I am hoping this is a bad dream or something that can be fixed.

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Also_Da_Man
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: paschors]
      #2039892 - 12/10/03 12:27 AM

Cool. Thanks.

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Alliop
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Also_Da_Man]
      #2099251 - 12/30/03 05:36 AM

Lot of thanks to you all (hello Jillin ), masters of scripting (i'm just trying to bee a copy/cut puzzles maker)....
I've just saved the whole pages in my "scripts" Folder, with tutos (Hello Gamburigham... great wokk, that your"s... spιcial thanks).

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XmirroR
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: Striker]
      #2189172 - 01/30/04 09:05 PM

Um, er... um... drool...

Did an updated SFD ever get made...





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Striker
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Re: SFD Errata [Re: XmirroR]
      #2234051 - 02/13/04 08:09 AM

Yes, yes it did!

-Striker

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