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LordDrake

Character Animation Revealed...
      #1692192 - 08/09/03 01:59 AM

Ok, first off let me state that all of what I say in this post is either my findings from experimentation, the findings of PhyntosWasp, or my deductions from those findings. Also, all of these findings were discovered in the process of animating a set of wings for my Seraph race. That said, here is what we know so far.

Base Info
Character Animations in MW are all controlled by a single file, the baseanim.nif. This file contains the data for all of the character animation groups. I would not advise trying to recreate or modify it, since we don't know everything about it. MW reads this file and animates the body according to hard-coded control mechanisms.

MW Character
The MW Character is seperated into three sections when it comes to animation, so far as I can tell these sections are the legs, the arms, and everything else (if a moderator is reading this and could find out the specific compilations of each section that would be awesome). Depending on the actions of the Player, each section will play a specific animation group, forinstance, if the Player is running with a spell equiped section 0 (the legs) will play the Run[direction] animation, while sections 1 and 2 will continue to play the IdleSpell animation.

A Note on the Animations
The baseanim.nif file does not contain a note track, instead MW associates certain frame sections with each animation group. For example, the IdleSpell loop goes from frame 4315 to frame 4339. MW also controlls all looping of animations. There are a total (at least I am pretty sure there is, Bloodmoon may have added some, haven't checked) of 5334 frames in the baseanim.nif file, with over a hundred animation groups represented in those frames.

Custom Animations
It is possible to create your own custom animations. To do so, open up your new mesh, create a blank animation track that matches the length of that of the baseanim.nif. Find the frame-set for the animation of your choice by looking it up in the TESCS under the "Character" menu. Then, create your animation within those frames.

Unknown Limitations
In PhyntosWasp and my experimentations we found that we were able to succesfully animate a set of wings to attach to the neck-mesh of the Character. However, we did not attempt to create new animations for any of the other body parts, this I fear may be beyond our abilities without being able to change the baseanim.nif file itself. Though, I plan on experimenting none-the-less, who knows, maybe any animations found in the mesh will override the baseanim.nif (I kinda doubt it though).

So What Good Is It?
Well, as will be seen in the wings of my Seraph race, you can create addons to the body, such as a tail on a non-beast race, or another set of arms (or a couple of them ), or custom wings, or any number of things. Also, I am fairly certain (though I have yet to experiment with it) that you could create custom armors with their own animations, this means that the animated cape/cloak everyone has been asking for is possible (actually it would be pretty easy to do with Mykul's mesh if you could get the 3ds file), or you could create animated scabbard or quivers, basically anything you can imagine.

Further Info
If you are interested in doing your own experimentations there are a couple of tools that will help you immensely. First, I have compiled a list of all of the animations and their frame-sets which I would be happy to provide to anyone that plans on working on this, just pm me with your e-mail and I will get it to you. Second, in game open up the console and type in "TDT" (w/o the "s). An overlay will appear on your screen, close the console and play around. Specifically, have the Character go through the animations you wish to animate. You will notice at the top left an area that contains information on each of the three sections of the body and the current animation group.


Well, that is about it for now. If I have forgotten anything or if I find anything new I will post it to this thread. Please feel free to post any of your ideas or questions here, and if you want to help me in figuring out the fine details of this process pm me. Oh, and a note on the actuall animation, I believe you have to use Morphers, but I am not positive on that. And good animating!

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Grumblepunk

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1692246 - 08/09/03 02:29 AM

Being that 95% of that made my skull throb, just in the reading of it <cough> does this mean good things for the Seraphim?

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KingKong
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Reged: 12/31/02
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1692283 - 08/09/03 02:45 AM

Quote:

Unknown Limitations
In PhyntosWasp and my experimentations we found that we were able to succesfully animate a set of wings to attach to the neck-mesh of the Character. However, we did not attempt to create new animations for any of the other body parts, this I fear may be beyond our abilities without being able to change the baseanim.nif file itself. Though, I plan on experimenting none-the-less, who knows, maybe any animations found in the mesh will override the baseanim.nif (I kinda doubt it though).




So you can animate the bodyparts individually. This could have very many uses.

But, new animations for let's say sitting, would involve animations of a charactor rig, or biped, or bones (I don't think morrowind supports bones). I've looked at the dancing girl animation file in a hex editor for names that jumped out at me, here's a list:

NiTextKeyExtraData
NiSkinInstance
Idle9: StartVUeA
Idle9: Stop
NiKeyframeController
NiKeyframeData
Idle9: StartVUeA
Idle9: Stop
NiNode....Weapon Bone
NiNode....Weapon Bonep
NiNode....Weapon
NiNode....Shield BoneD
NiNode....Shield Bone
NiNode....Shield
NiNode....Bounding Box
NiNode....ModelRoot
NiNode....FileRoot

Not exactly sure how you'd make a base charator rig though. But you'd need these parts though for the weapon, sheild, etc...I believe.

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: KingKong]
      #1692334 - 08/09/03 03:10 AM

Hmm...it looks like the dancing animation uses the Idle9 animation (must be the dance animtaion). I don't know what the NiNodes are, but my un-educated guess is that those are what the animation is controlled by/acts on. I'll give PhyntosWasp a heads up on this post for him to give his input too.


And yes, this does mean good news for my Seraph mod, but that is for another post.

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KingKong
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1692377 - 08/09/03 03:32 AM

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned. There were alot of other names in the hex. They were the names of the biped parts, but we already know what kind of biped we need right? Ninode... was the prefix of every one of those.

Doh! It just hit me that if there were biped names in the hex, then the animation must use a biped

Perhapes you can make a biped and animate him. Then morrowind automaticly reconizes it? Then you would need to use notes, I think.

If anyone is intrsted, here's a FULL list of all the stuff I found in the hex file:

NiNode....anim_dancingGirl.NIF
NiTextKeyExtraData
NiSkinInstance
Idle9: StartVUeA
Idle9: Stop
NiKeyframeController
NiKeyframeData
Idle9: StartVUeA
Idle9: Stop
NiNode....Bounding Box
NiNode....Bip01 Spine
NiNode....Bip01 Spine1
NiNode....Bip01 Spine2
NiNode....Bip01 Pelvis
NiNode....Bip01 Neck
NiNode....Bip01 Head
NiNode....Weapon Bone
NiNode....Weapon Bonep
NiNode....Weapon
NiNode....Shield BoneD
NiNode....Shield Bone
NiNode....Shield
NiNode....Bip01
NiNode....Bounding Box
NiNode....Bip01
NiNode....Neck
NiNode....Left Hand
NiNode....Shield BoneD
NiNode....Head
NiNode....Neck
NiNode....Chest
NiNode....Groin
NiNode....Pelvis
NiNode....Bip01 L Clavicle
NiNode....Bip01 L UpperArm
NiNode....Bip01 L Hand
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger0
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger01
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger1
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger02
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger2
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger3
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger4
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger11
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger12
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger21
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger22
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger31
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger32
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger41
NiNode....Bip01 L Finger42
NiNode....Bip01 L Forearm
NiNode....Bip01 L Thigh
NiNode....Bip01 L Calf
NiNode....Bip01 L Foot
NiNode....Bip01 L Toe0
NiNode....Left Foot
NiNode....Left Hand
NiNode....Left Knee
NiNode....Left Ankle
NiNode....Left Forearm
NiNode....Left Upper Leg
NiNode....Left Wrist
NiNode....Left Upper Arm
NiNode....Left Clavicle
NiNode....Bip01 R Clavicle
NiNode....Bip01 R UpperArm
NiNode....Bip01 R Forearm
NiNode....Bip01 R Hand
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger0
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger01
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger1
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger02
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger2
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger3
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger4
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger11
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger12
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger21
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger22
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger31
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger32
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger41
NiNode....Bip01 R Finger42
NiNode....Bip01 R Thigh
NiNode....Bip01 R Foot
NiNode....Bip01 R Calf
NiNode....Bip01 R Toe0
NiNode....Right Hand
NiNode....Right Forearm
NiNode....Right Wrist
NiNode....Right Upper Arm
NiNode....Right Clavicle
NiNode....Right Foot
NiNode....Right Knee
NiNode....Right Ankle
NiNode....Right Upper Leg
NiNode....ModelRoot
NiNode....FileRoot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And here's a post ny someone else:
----THE SECRET OF THE BIPED-----

Here is another Direct Excerpt. This one from the Existing animation with MAX models (shirts, armour, robes, etc.) ~ Solved! thread.

First off, you're going to have to learn a little bit about Biped and Physique. Instead of going through a long discussion of how this works, I'm going to give you a link to a non-Morrowind Tutorial so you can brush up on the terminoligy and proceedures.

http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/zedaxis/learn/cstut01.htm

So, let's say you've made this new breastplate for your armour, but it looks funny on the character because it doesn't bend or twist like the other armour does.

1) Open up your max file (or create a new mesh) and attach all of your mesh pieces into one monolithic model. It may be possible to do this with separate meshes (which you add physique to separately), but I had problems with this. Give it a try, if you'd like, and report any successes/failures below. Remember that you'll have to add physique separately to each object if you do.

2) Create a new Biped object 128 max units tall. Change the spine seqments to 3 (from 4). The finger segments need to change as well, but I haven't tested the number. I've read from another poster that you need 2 fingers with 3 sements for 3rd person views and 5 fingers with 3 segments for 1st person views, but other than that, I think everything is default. If you want to use tail animations, I believe they are 3 segments.

3) Put the Biped object (Bip01) into figure mode and align it to origin. You need to move the small diamond shape to just below center. I've found that it works best around halfway between 0,0,0 and the grid mark just below. Be sure to follow the tutorial above on how to move and adjust the Biped... if you do it wrong, it can cause things to not work right.

4) Resize and align your mesh to the proper biped body parts. You can also move the biped limbs and such to better fit your model, if necessary. Basically, make sure things line up well.

5) This step is differnt than the tutorials you'll read about physique. Link your mesh to Bip01 (the biped object). There is a link button (looks like three chain links) in the upper left of the toolbar. Just click your mesh and drag to the diamond on the Biped. Your mesh will become a child object to Bip01.

6) Hide unused bones.

7) Add the Physique modifier to your mesh and attach it to the Biped object. In the dialog box, it's best to choose Rigid and No Blending.

8) Tweak your vertex weighting as it shows you in the tutorial. Only use the Green, Rigid type. You should see your mesh bend with the Biped model.

9) Export with the TES Exporter.

A few things I've noticed:

*Sometimes, when you select vertex under Physique, you don't get any vertex crosses. I've tried unhiding, etc., but nothing worked. It kept me from using the model properly, so I had to fix it or trash the model and start over. In the end, I created a copy of the model and that worked. Don't know why it happened, though...

*If you want to readjust your mesh vertices *after* you've applied Physique, then your going to have to delete Physique first. If you've spent a lot of time tweaking the weighting and aren't planning to *add* vertces, then simply save out a .phy file (disk at the top of the physique rollout), delete Physique, adjust your vertices, reapply Physique and reload your .phy file.

*If you want to *MOVE* your mesh after you've linked it to the Biped, you're going to have to *UNLINK* first. Before you unlink, you should probably delete Physique as well.

*You can attach vertices to any bone, not just the ones for the particular body part you're woking with.

*I tried to do multiple body parts in one max file with the hopes of hiding the models I didn't need when I saved... this didn't work. You're going to need to delete unneeded meshes before you export.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And here's some stuff from an animation guide I found:

Abbreviations contained in Group Names:
1h: 1 Hand weapon
2c: 2 Hand Close (such as a longsword where both hands clasp the hilt)
2w: 2 Hand Wide (such as a staff, where the hands grip farther apart from each other)
hh: Hand to Hand
These are used to denote many different variations of Animation groups, for example there is Idle and Idle1 etc, but there is also an Idle1h, which is the 1h weapon idle animation. In this list I will show when these animations are present like so: Idle, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh. If you see this and want to make the appropriate animation you would use Idle1h, Idle2c, Idle2w, Idlehh etc when making your note. There are other types as well such as IdleSpell for the idle animation when the mob is ready to cast a spell.
Death and Hit Animations:
Death1 - Death5: Start, Stop
DeathKnockDown: Start, Stop
DeathKnockOut: Start, Stop
Hit1 - Hit5: Start, Stop
Knockdown: Start, Stop
Knockout: Start, Stop

Shield: Block Start, Block Hit, Block Stop
Idle Animations:
(Start, Loop Start, Loop Stop, Stop)
Idle, 1h, 2c, hh, 2w, Crossbow, Sneak, Spell, Storm, Swim
Idle2 - Idle9
Movement Animations:
(Start, Loop Start, Loop Stop, Stop)
Jump, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
Runback, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
Runforward, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
RunLeft, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
RunRight, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
SneakBack, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
SneakForward, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
SneakLeft, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
SneakRight, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
SpellTurnLeft
SpellTurnRight
TurnLeft, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
TurnRight, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
Walkback, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
Walkforward, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
Walkleft, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
WalkRight, 1h, 2c, 2w, hh
Weapon Animations:
Weapon animations have a lot more sub-notes then the other animation groups, they describe at what frames various events occur.
Melee:
The melee weapon groups are:
WeaponTwoHand
WeaponOneHand
WeaponTwoWide
HandtoHand (*I have to verify this group name, as well as all of it's sub groups)

Melee weapons have the following subnotes:
Equip Start
Equip Attach (this is the point were the weapon appears)
Equip Stop

There are three types of attacks for each melee weapon:

Slash
Chop
Thrust

Each of the three types of attacks as its own subreferences:

Start
Min Attack
Max Attack
Min Hit
Hit
Large Follow Start
Large Follow Stop
Medium Follow Start
Medium Follow Stop
Small Follow Start
Small Follow Stop

And then after each set of attacks each weapon type has:

Unequip Start
Unequip Detach (this is the point where the weapon disappears)
Unequip Stop

Okay I realize that this must be confusing, I'll give you examples of some complete notes:
WeaponTwoHand: Slash Max Attack
WeaponTwoWide: Unequip Detach
WeaponOneHand: Chop Large Follow Start
Marksmen:
There are three animation groups for Marksmen:
BowAndArrow
CrossBow
ThrowWeapon (I have to verify the subnotes and the group name)
Each of these have the following reference notes:
Equip Start
Equip Attach
Equip Stop
Shoot Start
Shoot Attach
Shoot Min Attack
Shoot Max Attack
Shoot Min Hit
Shoot Release
Shoot Follow Start
Shoot Follow Stop

Unequip Start
Unequip Detach
Unequip Stop

For good measure some sample animation notes:
BowAndArrow: Equip Start
Crossbow: Shoot Follow Start
ThrowWeapon: Unequip Detach
Spell Casting Animations:
SpellCast:
Equip Start
Equip Stop
Self Start
Self Release
Self Stop
Touch Start
Touch Release
Touch Stop
Target Start
Target Release
Target Stop
Unequip Start
Unequip Stop
*Also remember that you'll have your IdleSpell and various other 'cast ready' animations. I would include them around here. Each of the Self, Touch, Idle, etc should return to the same position as is listed in SpellCast: Equip Stop
Attack Animations:
There are 3 animation groups reserved for creatures. This is because creatures usually don't use weapons to attack:
Attack1:, Attack2:, Attack3:
Start
Hit
Stop

(no loops so each Attackx: Stop should finish with your default pose to get ready for the next action)
Sound Notes:

SoundGen:
moan
roar
scream
left
right
land
(the actual sound that is played for each soundgen is selected in TES:CK - different creatures using one model and animation group can thus play different sounds)

Sound: soundid
(SoundID means find the specific sound in TES:CK)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope all this has some use for use. What do you'all think?

--------------------
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Mirror 1Mirror 2Mirror 3


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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: KingKong]
      #1692395 - 08/09/03 03:46 AM

Note tracks will not be recognized if you put them in. We tried that to start with for the wings, had a fly group and an idle group and a jump group, our note tracks were just ignored. The Character animation groups are controlled by the engine, not by the animation file. The only way to change them is to get the version of the TESCS that the developers have, which we will never get, becuase then we could just make our own games . What you might be able to do is make your own versions of the animations that are allready in-game, but you wouldn't be able to add a sit animation (unless you could fit it in an idle animation or something, but that proly wouldn't work either cuz they are so short). Though, the question still remains as to which the engine will choose to play, the default animations or the custom animations. Anyone willing to try it out? Just make a test idle animation, one that goes from frame 1 to frame 40.

Oh, and as for the list of animation groups, as I said before, I have a complete list, that includes all of the subgroups as well as the frame numbers for each group. PM me if you want it.

Edited by LordDrake (08/09/03 03:49 AM)

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KingKong
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Reged: 12/31/02
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1692426 - 08/09/03 04:10 AM

I see. Maby then you could modify one like you said, and then use the playgroup script command to loop it. Then you could have then sitting when you enter the cell.

Even if you could make brand new animations, I doubt you'd be able to have someone walk to a chair and sit and have it run smooth. So have them sitting from the start would probably be best.

I take it there's no levetation animation, any ideas on how to temporaraly modify the walking animations (while you in air)?

Good job and good luck on all this

--------------------
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DarkDragon
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: KingKong]
      #1692469 - 08/09/03 04:36 AM

You guys are doing Animated Wings correct? What about the way Ian did his Moogles? They animate according to idle, walking, weapon drawn, jumping.

(the Moogles are player models)

And that's done without scripts...

If I misread what you guys were trying to do I apologize. I've never even touched 'max, so you can understand when I say I don't understand alot of the techno-babble.

Good luck though, would REALLY like to see animated capes...

--------------------
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Lingarn
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: DarkDragon]
      #1693139 - 08/09/03 10:22 AM

Ian commented in another thread that that was done using the Morph modifier, and a lack of note track just like LordDrake is talking about. You just make sure the Morph is right for each set of frames associated with each animation...

Lingarn

--------------------
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PHYNTOSWASP
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Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 279
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1693501 - 08/09/03 01:52 PM

First I think that commendations should go Bethesda Softworks for having the insight to choose the NetImmerse Game Engine for the Tamriel world. This is indeed a very flexible engine and offers a finely tuned system to any game developer, one is limited mainly by ones imagination and proper use of the tools available within that xgine. (although I would like to see a better scripting environment and a better physics engine)

Lord Drake, a very good job of consolodating that informations! \/^^^\/

A couple things that might be mentioned here as well. Animations should run at 15 fps. Accessories to PC's which use the base animation set must always match those of the baseanim.nif file. LordDrake has cataloged the animations and has that information available to any who ask.

Any thing which attaches itself to a Player Character will pick up the animation calls, this includes weapons, so, for instance one may wish to make an animated whip. The moment the weapon is deployed any animations attached to the weapon will begin to play in sync with the player animation groups. This opens the possibility up for many accessories, the animations need only coincide with the animation calls, frame for frame of the PC or NPC.

I encouraged Ian to have animated wings with his mogs and even demonstrated that this could be done and he was convinced enough to include them in his awesome Moggles. Those wings used Morphs because of the nature of the wings, they are leathery and morphing works good for them. If one refers to the MaxImmerse documentation you find that morphs are recommended for use in such constructions. MaxImmerse and all documentation are available free from Numeric Designs Ltd. (now Gamebryo)

The Seriphim wings are done using linear controls since they are very mechanical in nature, morphs can and may be added to them to produce feather flairing depending upon the final size of the file.

In regards custom animations. Ian is currently producing a custom animation set for the NPC moogles! Any NPC can draw upon both custom and stock animations from the game engine. When you create an NPC or creature you can elect to use stock animations or selectively add custom animations. This means that you do not have to make all animations! You only need to be sure that your group of animations occur within the time frame and naming conventions that the engine uses. There can not be a 'sit' animation without that having been added by the developers. Such an animation would also require that the bounding box occur very close to the body and not include the legs. You may see this effect by standing upon a Stiltstrider, there is a cockpit control area however you will hover just above it since you would be standing upon it's (collision) bounding box. Vivec effectively sits because he crosses his legs and his collision box can occur very near his posterior. You may observe that as he comes out of his idle posture he touches near the ground, this idle could have been made in such a way that he landed upon a chair as an example.

Custom Player Character animations can not take place until someone finds the bit in the byte which controls which animation set is used. It appears to be a Short Binary Word (8 bits) within the exe file itself. Some coder may discover this byte and give us the ability to select our own baseanim.nif set. This would certainly be a boon to the community and perhaps Bethesda Softworks may, in their infinite wisdom, reveal this magical byte's offset : P

To be fair, Bethesda has given copious hints as to how animations take place within the game. There was a hint given about creature animation found in a book available in a dungeon near Vivec which discussed the philognomy of Vvardenfell creatures. The hint was 'Earth Bone" which didn't take a leap of imagination to understand that this was a reference to the "Root Bone" vitally needed to animate any given creature within the game engine (knowing about the note track was not enough). Bethsoft also allowed us to look into the animation sets in the CS, something also which they did not have to provide. Morrowind is VERY flexible and enough information has been provided to allow for limitless modifications by the community. The scripting language is also illustrated for us within TESCS with numerous examples, indeed even the database has been fleshed out with wonderful hints about usages. It has become a game within a game for many here within the community, ferreting out these details. Nearly the entire NetImmerse game package is there for the enterprising modder =)

Hereafter we should expect to see more animations come to Vvardenfell. Most of the obstacles have been overcome. With the advent of the two expansions we have a more capable scripting language and even have the ability to swap out meshes for our player characters using the compound or monolythic mesh swapping on the fly. The only limitation we face is the need to have access to a computer graphics department stocked with Discreet's 3dsm :P



--------------------
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1st & 3rd Person Max Animation Reference Files

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: KingKong]
      #1693505 - 08/09/03 01:53 PM

you can't use the playgroup command on the Character or on NPCs, it just trips out the characters, sorry.

Thanks for clearing up some stuff and adding to what I said PhyntosWasp. How is it that Ian is making custom animations, does he just animated each of the body parts individually?

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PHYNTOSWASP
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Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 279
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1693691 - 08/09/03 03:00 PM

When you create an npc you can point to the animation set you would like to use or point to a mesh based upon a biped that conforms to the system and has no animation groups by selecting one of the animation options Biped/Walks/Flys/Swims. This allows the default animation sets to be used.

Because of this one can write custom animation sets. Any animation set which is not present will cause MW to execute the default set if you have selected an animation option, but your own animations must have properly formatted animation groups.

This is not possible with Player Characters since you are restricted to using one of two base animation sets, namely baseanim.nif (for non beasts) and base_animKnA.nif (beast races).



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Hellwolve
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: PHYNTOSWASP]
      #1694108 - 08/09/03 04:46 PM

Thanks for an interesting discussion, wich I wil most certainly follow!~

Secondly, welcome back! Well, IIRC, you were gone, anyway...

So, how's the Wolven mod goign?

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Hyperionis
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Reged: 06/16/03
Posts: 76
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Hellwolve]
      #1694208 - 08/09/03 05:09 PM

Quote:

maybe any animations found in the mesh will override the baseanim.nif (I kinda doubt it though).




Hmm... I don't think I got it. You say you were able to animate body parts using the very same method you doubt will work?

The reason I'm saying this is, well, because I made a flying rideable mount (Hippogryph, for the Night Elf mod), and what it does is replaces the groin with creature-plus-fake-seated-legs and adds a pair of reverse-joint bird legs so it can run. Now, what I want to do is to make it flap its wings while jumping.

Unfortunately, the jump loop animation is one frame long, so the best I could do was to make it spread the wings while jumping.

For the time being, I used a simple rotation animation to check this out. Here's what I did:

- Set the total animation length to 5334 frames.
- Positioned the rotation between the start and the end frames of the jumping animation according to the "Base character animation" in TESCS.

Nothing worked - the mesh didn't rotate while jumping. Is it me or the engine limitation you have mentioned?

------------------

EDIT: It did work after all! REMEMBER TO SET ANIMATIOM RATE TO 15 FPS AT ALL TIMES!

Next stop - foldable wings.

- Hyperion.

Edited by Hyperionis (08/09/03 06:27 PM)

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Hyperionis]
      #1695040 - 08/09/03 10:19 PM

well, first off a clarification of what I meant in the quote. Yes, we animated wings, but wings do not allready exist. Also, we attached them to the neck, a body part I assume has no animations of its own. What we have not done, and have thus not tested, is animate a pair of arms, or a torso, or hands. But, from what PhyntosWasp said about Ian's project, it sounds like you can do custom animations for any body part, which is cool.

In my own wings we had to settle for having the jump be a form of gliding, with the wings held open too. Unfortunately, there is no way around this that I can think of.

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soggycrouton
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1695175 - 08/09/03 11:15 PM

so, has anyone clarified if this will make sitting possible? has anyone clarified if this will mean we can make more impressive combat, or at least more immpressive looking combat?

that would be amazing

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: soggycrouton]
      #1695344 - 08/10/03 12:06 AM

well, sitting would be very hard, because the idle animation group for the Player is only 40 frames, and all of the frames loop. On top of that, we can't create new animation groups because they are hard-coded. So basically, the answer is no we cannot make sitting animations...probably. As for combat, if someone wanted to make their own attack animations it would be possible, but it would over-write the basic ones.

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TSBasilisk
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1695355 - 08/10/03 12:10 AM

Hey, could this be applied to Aedroth's left-hand Wraithguard? He still has a 3ds file available on his site...

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scarab23
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: TSBasilisk]
      #1695589 - 08/10/03 01:30 AM

Wow, thank you, all of you. This is some really good information here and I hope it will continue to improve the modding community.

I did get a headache reading it all though , looks like I'm gonna have to sit down with max for a week and try to figure some of this out.

Thanks again

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: TSBasilisk]
      #1695885 - 08/10/03 03:33 AM

Yeah, I think you deffinately could apply it to his mesh, since I believe Ian used this method to finally animate his mog's hands.

Scarab, no problem, it is my pleasure to share this with the community. Just be sure to let me know about anything you find or figure out.

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Vincent Dragon

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: PHYNTOSWASP]
      #1696615 - 08/10/03 09:57 AM

phyntos maybe this engine is flexible..but it dosent include tools..we dont have any toolls to use that flexibility..we have to make them ourselves..Tell me one thing : what for we got cd2 with all those nifs and textures IF originally we couldnt modify them before someone FROM COMMUNITY didnt create tool how to modify and make new nifs...The lack of tools is the problem not the engine flexibility...in the end morrowind isnt so hardcoded as it looked in the beginning

and thx for great info

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Acronomic
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1696655 - 08/10/03 10:21 AM

Wait... ... ... ...
new combat animations? ...

I'd actually start playing Morrowind once more!! ... a bit tired of it, I guess.

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soggycrouton
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Reged: 01/22/03
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Acronomic]
      #1696804 - 08/10/03 11:37 AM

no, not new ones, but perhaps someone could reanimate them, so that it look far more realistic, and fluid

anyone?

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I don't even pretend to know what the questions are.

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Edited by soggycrouton (08/10/03 11:41 AM)

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GonerX

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: soggycrouton]
      #1697077 - 08/10/03 01:04 PM

Lately i cought my eye on new water animations, ripples are a bit to wide... They also have added reflections for water, anything interesting???

Of course it is! LOL! Armor, weapons, floor, and water reflections being added is just hard to think of how they did it...

They even added it to Unreal Tournament G.O.T.Y!!! That game was thought to be to old for that but its happened and revamped the game really good, if you want to learn this stuff sometimes you gotta experiment some place else other than Morrowind!

Edited by GonerX (08/10/03 01:07 PM)

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DMKW
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1697657 - 08/10/03 04:50 PM

sorry to go offtopic but is there any way we can maybe see a screenshot of the new and improved wings?

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Daerk
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: DMKW]
      #1697722 - 08/10/03 05:11 PM

Screenies are good.

And very nice informations, here.

-- D out

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: DMKW]
      #1698350 - 08/10/03 08:46 PM

nope, not yet. We haven't quite finished texturing them and getting them to look just how I want them to. So no peeking till we finish them

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1699179 - 08/11/03 01:57 AM

bump...so more people can learn about this

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Cortex

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1700083 - 08/11/03 09:23 AM

When replacing an idle with one of our own, are you sure we are limited by the normal timelength of idles.
How does the dancing girl animation (which replaces one of the idles) last longer than the 40 frames?

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1701999 - 08/11/03 09:12 PM

The dancing girl animation uses the Idle9 animation set I believe. Regardless, the Character idle that is normally use is just the Idle animation, which goes from frames 0 to 40.

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DarkDragon
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1702796 - 08/12/03 01:56 AM

I don't think dancing uses the Idle9 animation, as I clicked on an NPC in the console and typed "playgroup Idle9" and nothing happened (or at least it didn't start dancing around)

The dancers in the club have a script on them I believe... *shrug* never looked too closely at them.

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: DarkDragon]
      #1703001 - 08/12/03 03:31 AM

The dancing girls, being NPCs, have custom animation files attached to them that uses the idle9 animation group for the dancing (I looked it up in the editor). Unfortunately, the PC can't have a custom animation file attached to him, but, maybe someone could create a custom animation file that includes a sitting idle animation for NPCs...I am not sure though, someone would have to figure out the rules for the custom animation files and how to controll them. You can't use the playgroup function on the PC or NPCs though (I think it has to do with the fact that there are three sections for each Character, and they have the ability to play different animations, instead of just one at a time).

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Hellwolve
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1703325 - 08/12/03 05:44 AM

If there are three groups to adress, and asuming that script command does work, wouldn't there be an way to specify wich group?

E.g.

playgroup(group,animation)

playgroup(legs,idle10.nif)

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Maverique

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1703739 - 08/12/03 08:49 AM

Quote:




[ A Note on the Animations
The baseanim.nif file does not contain a note track, instead MW associates certain frame sections with each animation group. For example, the IdleSpell loop goes from frame 4315 to frame 4339. MW also controlls all looping of animations. There are a total (at least I am pretty sure there is, Bloodmoon may have added some, haven't checked) of 5334 frames in the baseanim.nif file, with over a hundred animation groups represented in those frames.






The baseanim.nif, does, in fact have a note track. That is how the animation system identifies and calls up the correct animation. The syntax, however, must be EXACT in order for it to work correctly.
If you want particular npc's to have a whole suite of animations besides the dancing, go ahead and add in your walks and runs - even combat anims, save it as a new file. When in the editor, under Add animation file, select your new file and anything in this file will override the current baseanim.
You could actually redo the entire baseanim and just overwrite the original. However, what you do to the baseanim, must be done to the baseanim.1st. All the equivalent animations must be the same number of frames. Frame number does not matter. Just make sure all the notes are correctly labeled!
Feel free to barage me questions...

Respectfully,
Mav

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Wookiee21
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Reged: 02/05/03
Posts: 142
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1703839 - 08/12/03 09:32 AM

sitting?

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MrSmileyFaceDude

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1703863 - 08/12/03 09:47 AM

Quote:

The only way to change them is to get the version of the TESCS that the developers have, which we will never get, becuase then we could just make our own games .




You DO have the same version of the TESCS that we have. It's the exact same tool we use, with zero differences.


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MrSmileyFaceDude

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Wookiee21]
      #1703871 - 08/12/03 09:50 AM

Quote:

sitting?




Sitting would require a lot of code changes to work properly. It is not simply a matter of adding a new animation group. The NPC has to find a place to sit, the seat has to be the right height and free of obstructions, etc. You could probably kludge something that makes a seat appear under a character's butt when they sit down, but I don't think there's any way to create a general "sit on any chair that's available" system without modifying the code. (you mod makers should take this as a challenge )

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Hellwolve
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Reged: 07/05/02
Posts: 2171
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1703918 - 08/12/03 10:13 AM

Quote:

...Feel free to barage me questions...

Respectfully,
Mav




I think the most obvious questions are:

How would one go about adding notes, and how do they need to be labeled?

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Vincent Dragon

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1704034 - 08/12/03 10:56 AM

Sitting would require a lot of code changes to work properly. It is not simply a matter of adding a new animation group. The NPC has to find a place to sit, the seat has to be the right height and free of obstructions, etc. You could probably kludge something that makes a seat appear under a character's butt when they sit down, but I don't think there's any way to create a general "sit on any chair that's available" system without modifying the code. (you mod makers should take this as a challenge )




we are asking the animation only not the code for the chairs so it is simply matter of adding a new animation

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Lingarn
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1704145 - 08/12/03 11:41 AM

One question that seems important to me is how exactly things need to be set up (in terms of biped) in order to make a working custom animation.

Is it just a matter of animating a biped and adding in the notes correctly, or are other parts (for example, dummy body parts named after all of the player body parts) needed? Are there any special bones (aside from weapon bone, root bone, and shield bone) that need to be added? Are the biped specs floating around the forum accurate for this task (if you're not familiar with them, I can hunt them down and post them)? Is the setup for first person animation different, and if so how? Would you be willing to release the max file for base_anim? If not, would you be willing to release a max file set up properly for making animations (i.e. not animated, but ready to be animated and used)?

I could probably go on, but it seems I've asked a lot already.

As an aside, I'd like to thank you for being so forthcoming with information and for volunteering to answer questions like this. You have already been very helpful to the community, and it is appreciated.

Lingarn

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Maverique

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Lingarn]
      #1704769 - 08/12/03 05:22 PM

Quote:


Is it just a matter of animating a biped and adding in the notes correctly, or are other parts (for example, dummy body parts named after all of the player body parts) needed? Are there any special bones (aside from weapon bone, root bone, and shield bone) that need to be added? Are the biped specs floating around the forum accurate for this task (if you're not familiar with them, I can hunt them down and post them)? Is the setup for first person animation different, and if so how? Would you be willing to release the max file for base_anim? If not, would you be willing to release a max file set up properly for making animations (i.e. not animated, but ready to be animated and used)?




I'm not sure what's floating around out there, but I think for animation at least, the max file would be in order. Things can get touchy without it. For those serious about animating, PM me.

There are different files for 1st and 3rd person, as well as for female and beast race (cats and lizards use the same suite of anims). The only difference for the female, though is the shadow geometry.


Now, note tracks and the syntax:
Note tracks can be added in the track view. Select Bip01 in the track view and then go to the tool bar and click the yellow piece of paper thingy icon(TM). You now have a note track. Adding notes is just like adding keyframes for animation. When you right-click on the key, this gives you access to the info and ultimately where you type in the notes:

All anims have a START and STOP.
Most all anims have a LOOP START and LOOP STOP.

The correct syntax is:
WalkForward: Start
WalkForward: Loop Start
WalkForward: Loop Stop
WalkForward: Stop

The single space after the : is most important! Any more or less and bad things happen!

Here are the groups:

"Idle",
"Idle2",
"Idle3",
"Idle4",
"Idle5",
"Idle6",
"Idle7",
"Idle8",
"Idle9",

"Idlehh",
"Idle1h",
"Idle2c",
"Idle2w",
"IdleSwim",
"IdleSpell",
"IdleCrossbow",
"IdleSneak",
"IdleStorm",

"Torch",
"Hit1",
"Hit2",
"Hit3",
"Hit4",
"Hit5",
"Death1",
"Death2",
"Death3",
"Death4",
"Death5",
"DeathKnockDown",
"DeathKnockOut",
"KnockDown",
"KnockOut",
"SwimDeath",
"SwimDeathKnockDown",
"SwimDeathKnockOut",
"SwimKnockOut",
"SwimKnockDown",

"SwimWalkForward",
"SwimWalkBack",
"SwimWalkLeft",
"SwimWalkRight",
"SwimRunForward",
"SwimRunBack",
"SwimRunLeft",
"SwimRunRight",
"SwimTurnLeft",
"SwimTurnRight",

"WalkForward",
"WalkBack",
"WalkLeft",
"WalkRight",
"TurnLeft",
"TurnRight",
"RunForward",
"RunBack",
"RunLeft",
"RunRight",
"SneakForward",
"SneakBack",
"SneakLeft",
"SneakRight",
"Jump",

"WalkForwardhh",
"WalkBackhh",
"WalkLefthh",
"WalkRighthh",
"TurnLefthh",
"TurnRighthh",
"RunForwardhh",
"RunBackhh",
"RunLefthh",
"RunRighthh",
"SneakForwardhh",
"SneakBackhh",
"SneakLefthh",
"SneakRighthh",
"Jumphh",

"WalkForward1h",
"WalkBack1h",
"WalkLeft1h",
"WalkRight1h",
"TurnLeft1h",
"TurnRight1h",
"RunForward1h",
"RunBack1h",
"RunLeft1h",
"RunRight1h",
"SneakForward1h",
"SneakBack1h",
"SneakLeft1h",
"SneakRight1h",
"Jump1h",

"WalkForward2c",
"WalkBack2c",
"WalkLeft2c",
"WalkRight2c",
"TurnLeft2c",
"TurnRight2c",
"RunForward2c",
"RunBack2c",
"RunLeft2c",
"RunRight2c",
"SneakForward2c",
"SneakBack2c",
"SneakLeft2c",
"SneakRight2c",
"Jump2c",

"WalkForward2w",
"WalkBack2w",
"WalkLeft2w",
"WalkRight2w",
"TurnLeft2w",
"TurnRight2w",
"RunForward2w",
"RunBack2w",
"RunLeft2w",
"RunRight2w",
"SneakForward2w",
"SneakBack2w",
"SneakLeft2w",
"SneakRight2w",
"Jump2w",

"SpellCast",
"SpellTurnLeft",
"SpellTurnRight",

"Attack1",
"Attack2",
"Attack3",
"HandToHand",

"Crossbow",
"BowAndArrow",
"ThrowWeapon",

"WeaponOneHand",
"WeaponTwoHand",
"WeaponTwoWide",

"Shield",
"PickProbe",

"InventoryHandToHand",
"InventoryWeaponOneHand",
"InventoryWeaponTwoHand",
"InventoryWeaponTwoWide",


Now combat, and bow and arrow anims are a different thing altogether. They have many more notes. Excuse the format:

// \/ Attack (1-3) \/ Shields \/ Picks/Probes
char *animGroupActionNames[ ANIM_GROUP_ACTION_COUNT ][ ANIM_GROUP_ACTION_TYPE_COUNT ] = {
"Start", "Start", "Start", "Equip Start", "Block Start", "Equip Start", "Equip Start", "Equip Start",
"Stop", "Stop", "Hit", "Equip Attach", "Block Hit", "Equip Attach", "Equip Attach", "Equip Attach",
"", "Loop Start", "Stop", "Equip Stop", "Block Stop", "Equip Stop", "Equip Stop", "Equip Stop",
"", "Loop Stop", "", "Unequip Start", "", "Unequip Start", "Unequip Start", "Unequip Start",
"", "", "", "Unequip Detach", "", "Unequip Detach", "Unequip Detach", "Unequip Detach",
"", "", "", "Unequip Stop", "", "Unequip Stop", "Unequip Stop", "Unequip Stop",

"", "", "", "Shoot Start", "", "Start", "Self Start", "Slash Start",
"", "", "", "Shoot Attach", "", "Stop", "Self Release", "Slash Min Attack",
"", "", "", "Shoot Min Attack", "", "", "Self Stop", "Slash Max Attack",
"", "", "", "Shoot Max Attack", "", "", "Touch Start", "Slash Min Hit",
"", "", "", "Shoot Min Hit", "", "", "Touch Release", "Slash Hit",
"", "", "", "Shoot Release", "", "", "Touch Stop", "Slash Small Follow Start",
"", "", "", "Shoot Follow Start", "", "", "Target Start", "Slash Small Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "Shoot Follow Attach", "", "", "Target Release", "Slash Medium Follow Start",
"", "", "", "Shoot Follow Stop", "", "", "Target Stop", "Slash Medium Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Slash Large Follow Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Slash Large Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Min Attack",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Max Attack",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Min Hit",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Hit",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Small Follow Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Small Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Medium Follow Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Medium Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Large Follow Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Chop Large Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Min Attack",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Max Attack",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Min Hit",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Hit",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Small Follow Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Small Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Medium Follow Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Medium Follow Stop",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Large Follow Start",
"", "", "", "", "", "", "", "Thrust Large Follow Stop",
};

Each group that has chop, slash and thrust are:
HandtoHand:
WeaponOneHand:
WeaponTwoHand:
WeaponTwoWide:

Well that should open a whole can of worms!
Feel free to further poke me into answering questions

Respectfully,
Mav



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Belpheigor
Novice

Reged: 07/30/03
Posts: 28
Loc: VA, USA
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1704855 - 08/12/03 06:06 PM

Just a few things...

First, copious amounts of gratitude goes to Maverique and MrSmileyFaceDude for all of your info! This should make a lot of new mods a lot more interesting.

Second, even though everyone should save this topic, I was wondering if it could be pinned as an animation resource?

Lastly, for those attempting sitting animations, can't we as a community name a standard height for chairs? I'm sure there are plenty of modelers out there including myself who would make some fine looking chairs that are sittable to be added to the game.

Thanks again.

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soggycrouton
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1704899 - 08/12/03 06:16 PM

All I want to knw is:

Is it POSSILBE to

1)add new attack animations to the player, so that when the player does a special move, like a jumping chop, it will play a custom animation

AND/OR.....

2)add new idle animations for the player, so that he can go through different stances, and his animation will change for each one.

IF NOT, THEN....

3)add new attack animations to the player/npcs that will play alongside the existing ones, that is, randomly play them (chop1, chop2, etc.)

IF NOT THEN:

4)replace the current attack animations with better ones. like when the you a two handed blunt weapon that is near them (like 6th house bell hammer) it will use an animation that really shows that they are exerting effort, etc.

IF NOT THEN:

5)DAMMIT!


--------------------
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I don't pretend to have all the answers.
I don't even pretend to know what the questions are.

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Drendal
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: soggycrouton]
      #1704924 - 08/12/03 06:24 PM

Soggy->

You need to read the thread.

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soggycrouton
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Drendal]
      #1705176 - 08/12/03 07:48 PM

I dont understand this thread. I do not own Max, do not know about animationg, and do not understand anything that anyone has typed. I just want a yes or no, if its not too much trouble.

I'm guessing number 4 is possible, but I have no idea about the other ones.

Thanks

--------------------
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I don't pretend to have all the answers.
I don't even pretend to know what the questions are.

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Hey, where am I?

Edited by soggycrouton (08/12/03 07:49 PM)

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Xanthros
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1705471 - 08/12/03 09:36 PM

This is an excellent topic! Im glad someone is finnaly starting to reveal the mysteries of character animation. I think this should be pinned up!

I own 3D MAX myself, and am willing to learn anything I can. I have yet to experiment with biped yet, as frankly I havent had a use for them till now, but I hope to be able to use this for my mods.

Specifically, what im working on now is a set of armor with a sheath on the back. When the armor is being worn, I would like to be able to use a custom animation where the player reaches behind him to draw his weapon. Trick is, im not exactly sure how to do this...

Ideally, I wish that we could add custom animations (without overwriting the main ones) and call them with scripts. From what I read here, im not sure thats possible though.

The trick for me is understanding a few basic things.

1. How the animation system for morrowind works.
2. How the animation system can be modified.
3. The limitations of custom animation
4. How to implement custom animation.

you guys are already answering alot of those questions! Thanks!

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1705506 - 08/12/03 09:44 PM

Maverique:
Quick question, do the same rules apply for the Player Character? And if they do how do you choose a new animation file for the player character?

edit: Oh, also, is there a way to call animations for the Player via scripts?

Oh, and btw, thanks for correcting my earlier statements, and for helping us all out.

MrSmileyFaceDude:
The editor we have is the same exact one the devs used? I was under the impression that some of the capabilities were taken out to protect copyright stuff etc. (like the ability to create a .esm etc.). Cool, then that means we really could make our own games. Thanks again for the help.



Edited by LordDrake (08/12/03 09:54 PM)

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Xanthros
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1705539 - 08/12/03 09:53 PM

I think I could see a problem, that if you could set frames 5334-5400 as a new attack animation, and another plugin set a similar range for their mod...then what would happen if it conflicts? Maybe a mute point, because I dont think you guys mentioned it was possible...

Im confused again...

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DarkDragon
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Xanthros]
      #1705655 - 08/12/03 10:31 PM

MrSmileyFacedDude: If we all have the exact same version of the CS you guys have, then why can't we add new spell effects and code them ourselves?

Actually I already know the answer... that sort of thing has to be hard-coded into the actual .exe. Too bad really.. I'd love to code my own spells. Oh well.

This thread is awesome. Am really glad to see so much information coming out... I really hope this allows for great things to come. Imagine, a custom animation for Vampire Embrace for when you embrace your followers... or just a general vampire "suck blood" animation for sucking the life out of other people.

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Astarsis
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A Big thank you [Re: ]
      #1706089 - 08/13/03 01:01 AM

A big thank you to Maverique and MrSmileyFaceDude for that incredible information !

Now we can unlock the mysteries of Ballet, egyptian dance, juggling, belly dancing, acrobatic shows, and what not !

Sky is the limit !

Too bad I don't know anything about max yet, but it sure sound interesting ;D

Cheers !

Astarsis

--------------------
new mods coming summer 2004 !

click here for my mods

(Unforgotten Realms) http://morrowind.unforgottenrealms.net/

(Also availlable on Summit)

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PHYNTOSWASP
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Re: A Big thank you [Re: Astarsis]
      #1707302 - 08/13/03 12:09 PM

Quote:

A big thank you to Maverique and MrSmileyFaceDude for that incredible information !

Now we can unlock the mysteries of Ballet, egyptian dance, juggling, belly dancing, acrobatic shows, and what not !

Sky is the limit !

Too bad I don't know anything about max yet, but it sure sound interesting ;D

Cheers !

Astarsis




Even the sky is not a limit now. To infinity and beyond! :::)

Maverique has provided the reference Max files used to produce Player Character animations. They are made available for all at Max Animation Reference Files


--------------------
Wolven Race Creator
1st & 3rd Person Max Animation Reference Files

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Lingarn
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Re: A Big thank you [Re: PHYNTOSWASP]
      #1707416 - 08/13/03 01:06 PM

Jackpot!

Today has become another red letter day. In addition to allowing us to make animations, this shows us examples of properly physiqued bodyparts (including hands!) in first and third person, and shows us all sorts of neat little things that we can use in multiple ways.

For example: There's a fairly nondescript humanoid mesh that (presumably) makes the shadows (since it's named shadow, or something similar) which could serve as a general body plan around which to build your creations if you wanted to build custom races. Imagine what other little treasures we can get out of these files!

I reiterate: Jackpot!

Lingarn

P.S. -- Another big thank you to Mav!

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Thanos_of_Titan
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Re: A Big thank you [Re: PHYNTOSWASP]
      #1707938 - 08/13/03 04:34 PM

Thanks Phyntoswasp!

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Albedo
Curate

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Re: A Big thank you [Re: Thanos_of_Titan]
      #1709980 - 08/14/03 05:45 AM

awesome stuff...

so do you think we could make hand to hand more martial arts based... with round house kicking and jump kicking... and etc...

to be a monk with a full repetoire of punches and kicks would rock...

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TheLys

Re: A Big thank you [Re: PHYNTOSWASP]
      #1710189 - 08/14/03 07:42 AM

Hehe Phynto my friend, I'm sure you're VERY happy with what you found here

And I'm sure it will make me very happy too

Thanks a lot to Mav and MrSFD, truly kind BS devs !

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IndigoRage
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Re: A Big thank you [Re: ]
      #1710715 - 08/14/03 11:50 AM

This thread MUST be pinned!

Pax,
Indigo

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Remus
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Posts: 39
Re: A Big thank you [Re: IndigoRage]
      #1711106 - 08/14/03 02:30 PM

Wonderfull news!,

Now i can imaging/hoping for a new Battle Arena/Kung Fu mod (just like the legendary KF mod for Max Payne) .

Thanks Beths

Edited by Remus (08/14/03 02:31 PM)

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LordDrake

Re: A Big thank you [Re: Albedo]
      #1711198 - 08/14/03 03:03 PM

I would imagine yes, but you would be limited to creating three attacks, one to replace the chop, thrust, and slash attacks repectively.

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DarkDragon
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Re: A Big thank you [Re: ]
      #1711767 - 08/14/03 06:27 PM

BUMP. This is too good for the 4th page.

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kathode

Re: A Big thank you [Re: DarkDragon]
      #1712054 - 08/14/03 07:47 PM

Quote:

BUMP. This is too good for the 4th page.


Pinning the thread. It even excites me I was sure those files would never be released. Awesome, and I better see some awesome work from you guys real soon now

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Xanthros
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 116
Re: A Big thank you [Re: ]
      #1712159 - 08/14/03 08:32 PM

Quote:

I would imagine yes, but you would be limited to creating three attacks, one to replace the chop, thrust, and slash attacks repectively.




Bummer

Pity Bethesda cant release a patch that allows us to animate more frames beyond the limit, and call them through scripts. o_O I wonder how difficult that would be...

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LordDrake

Re: A Big thank you [Re: ]
      #1712875 - 08/15/03 01:21 AM

thanks kathode, you should be seeing at least one newly animated mod in the next few weeks or so I would imagine (my Seraph mod ).

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Ball

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1715250 - 08/15/03 04:46 PM

The names of the listed groups cannot be changed?
For example, the name of Death8 or DeathMagnificent will be invalid?



Respectfully
Ball



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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1715537 - 08/15/03 06:11 PM

that is correct I believe. besides, why would you want to change their names? You can't call them by a script anyways (as far as we have been able to tell at least).

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Ball

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1715914 - 08/15/03 08:11 PM

Quote:

that is correct I believe. besides, why would you want to change their names? You can't call them by a script anyways (as far as we have been able to tell at least).




There can be some reasons... For example, the quantity(amount) of variants of reaction of the character can be more, than is planned in groups. Other reason - mistake in a spelling of the name of group will not be critical.

Quote:


You can't call them by a script anyways (as far as we have been able to tell at least).




You want to tell, that functions:

PlayGroup, GroupName, [Flags]
LoopGroup, GroupName, Number, [Flags]

Do not work???




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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1716532 - 08/16/03 04:17 AM

As far as my testing so far has found, no, you can not use PlayGroup or LoopGroup with the Player Character. And I do not believe you can do it with NPCs either. There is no example of it being used with NPCs that I know of either (The dancing girl script does not use it, it just marks an NPC as a dancing girl, then I assume the exe forces the animations via hard-coded functions). When I tried to do it with my wings (just calling the LoopGroup, Jump, 10 function for the Player) it did not work, in fact it made it so the player could not move. So yes, I am telling you those functions do not work for the Player and I am fairly sure (though I have admitedly not tested it yet) for NPCs. I wish they did, but they don't. The only way I could think of them working is if you could call them for one of the three sections that the body is made up of, but I don't think you can (I can't even think of what the sections would be referenced as). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news on this front.

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Ball

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1716972 - 08/16/03 10:17 AM

Quote:

LordDrake
you can not use PlayGroup or LoopGroup with the Player Character. And I do not believe you can do it with NPCs either.




Dear LordDrake, - I do not think, that you are right. Yes, I already heard from others, about failures. But conclusion that the functions do not work - are hasty. Probably, the functions were applied incorrectly. It means, that it is necessary to search for correct methods of use.
My opinion is based not on experience of application.
The animation is not value, if it cannot be used by "order". The animation shows reaction of the characters(NPC's, creatures) to events. If it is impossible to ensure it, - all discussion in this theme loses any sense!
Differently, we can create:
1. Uninteractive objects with indefinitely monotonous movements
2. The objects similar under the form on NPC, but which do not cooperate with the player
( though, this same).

I hope (and is convinced), that it not so.
We have begun work in May. For this period many "unsoluble" problems were decided.
Ours first "wild" monster has learned to go and to attack the player month back. For this purpose the base animation of the developers was used. Though, we used a wrong skeleton. It has caused very interesting effects. Due to them ours monster has appeared "awful" After installation in game it had "a broken neck". Head laid on shoulders.
It is amusing, if the player came nearer, the head began to rotate with the large speed.
Speed and direction of rotation depend on a situation. The rotation began only at a pursuit of the player&#8230;
The large difficulties have appeared at attempts to establish in game of absolute new creatures. For example, specific bugs. The bugs have 3 pairs legs&#8230; Is not clear how to make by it animation. It is not clear, whether it is possible to use Bones instead of Biped?

If your information is valid, all our work - is senseless.

Quote:

LordDrake
There is no example of it being used with NPCs that I know of either (The dancing girl script does not use it, it just marks an NPC as a dancing girl, then I assume the exe forces the animations via hard-coded functions).




It can be by true.
However it does not mean, that the functions of animation do not work in the scripts.
Moreover, they were used! Look the given example.
It gives the favorable forecast for application of functions of animation.

Example:
begin OutsideBanner

;this script is for a banner object outside that
;animates in the wind.
;Idle is still, Idle2 is a little breeze, and Idle3 is a large breeze

short ran

;PlayLoopSound3DVP "Flag" 1.0, 1.0 ;sounds odd and too slow anyway

if ( MenuMode == 0 )

set ran to random 100

if ( ran < 30 ) ;30% chance the flag does something new

;this will check the weather in the future
if (GetCurrentWeather >= 5 ) ;thunder, ash, or blight

LoopGroup, Idle3, 5
endif

;the last anim called in this script is the one it will play
if ( ran <= 10 )
PlayGroup, Idle

elseif ( GetCurrentWeather < 5 )
PlayGroup, Idle2

endif

endif

endif

end OutsideBanner

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1717634 - 08/16/03 03:10 PM

You read too deeply into what I said. The functions do work in scripts, just not for the Player Character and it does not work with any sort of reliability for NPCs (I tested some today with it, cometimes it would partially work, sometimes it wouldn't work at all). The PlayGroup and LoopGroup functions should work with monsters, and they deffinately work with activators and other such objects.

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Cortex

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1723204 - 08/18/03 08:46 AM

I use playgroup on npc's. Works fine for me.
I usually force the animation with a 1 parameter, as otherwise you have to wait for the previous animation to finish which depending on the animation may not occur. Also remember to set them to idle afterwards.

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LordDrake

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1724104 - 08/18/03 03:25 PM

Ok, that explains why it was acting to finniky for me, I wasn't giving it any other parameters. Cool, now the question is can you call custom made groups, my guess is no...but maybe someone could try it out, maybe adding a nother animation group after all the others in the baseanim.nif with a custom name.

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Ball

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1728102 - 08/19/03 08:19 PM

The animation for NPC, - normally works with functions.
NPC'S can be divided into two categories.
At one - in TES only 3 groups of animation. For example, if to choose in TES, in group NPC, ID = amili llaram, then to press in a dialogue window the button Animation, we shall find out in the list only 3 groups:
Idle4
Idle5
WalkForward
NPC of a similar type - meet frequently. And all of them have these three groups.

Other category NPC has a complete set of groups. For example, NPC ID = ano andaram
Such type - also frequently meets.
For experiment I have prepared special script.

The instruction of the user:
Establish script on some NPC'S from different categories. Start game.
When distance will become small, - the dialogue window will appear.
In this window you can choose one from the following groups of animation:
1. WalkForward
1. Idle5
1. Idle4
2. Hit1
2. Death1
2. WalkBack
2. Attack1
No

1 - Designates groups for NPC of the first category, 2 - for another.
Choose the necessary group and NPC will begin it to carry out.

That I have noticed:
- Neutral NPC do not carry out group Attack1 in spite of the fact that it at them is present
- NPC of the first group carry out animation from groups Death1, Hit1 and others. And it in spite of the fact that in TES them are not present.
By the way, try to nominate NPC animation Death1. It will be an amusing show!
NPC will fall on ground. However, it will not die! To it is possible to approach and to talk. The interesting prospect - opens it is possible to organize "beach":)
To replace NPC group of animation, simply depart back. The dialogue window will inform, that it is possible to begin at first.
In script it is possible to bring in the new names of groups and functions.

text:
********************************************************

begin testAnimeGrup

short button
short questionAsked
if ( questionAsked < 2 )
if ( GetDistance, Player <= 800 )
if ( questionAsked == 0 )
MessageBox "Let's check up animation for NPC?" "1. WalkForward " "1. Idle5" "1. Idle4" "2. Hit1" "2. Death1" "2. WalkBack" "2. Attack1" "No"
set questionAsked to 1
elseif ( questionAsked == 1 )
set button to GetButtonPressed
if ( button == 0 )
PlayGroup, WalkForward, 1
set questionAsked to 2
elseif ( button == 1 )
PlayGroup, Idle5, 1
set questionAsked to 2
elseif ( button == 2 )
PlayGroup, Idle4, 1
set questionAsked to 2
elseif ( button == 3 )
PlayGroup, Hit1, 1
set questionAsked to 2
elseif ( button == 4 )
PlayGroup, Death1, 1
set questionAsked to 2
elseif ( button == 5 )
PlayGroup, WalkBack, 1
set questionAsked to 2
elseif ( button == 6 )
PlayGroup, Attack1, 1
set questionAsked to 2
elseif ( button == 7 )
set questionAsked to 2
endif
endif
endif
elseif ( questionAsked == 2 )
if ( GetDistance, Player >= 1200 )
MessageBox, " Check again."
set questionAsked to 0
endif
endif
end testAnimeGrup


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Ball

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1788789 - 09/13/03 09:03 AM

At preservation of model with animation, there are problems...

Have created a tree for an ornament of a landscape. The tree reacted to a wind with the help of animation. Was used morph. In [Track View] (Note Track) the notes are executed with correct syntax. In 3D Max (version 4.2) it looked cool. I save model in a format NIF (is marked "Include in NIF"). In the report TES Exporter, I see, that the animation in a file is added:
--------------------------------------------
Creating an NiNode for Scene Root
Creating an NiBSAnimationNode for Tree_1
Tree_1 has extra data of Animated = True

Note tracks found on Tree_1
Note WalkForward: Start at 0,000000
Note WalkForward: Loop Start at 0,000000
Note at 0,000000
Note WalkForward: Stop at 3,300000
Note WalkForward: Loop Stop at 3,333333
Creating keyframe data for Tree_1.
Converting Geometry for Tree_1
Creating morph geometry for Tree_1
Only 1 material
has 1724 faces
has 5172 vertices.
has normals.
has 2 texture coordinate channels.
Converting 5 Bez Float keys.
Converting 3 Bez Float keys.
Adding default Vertex Color Property to Scene Root
Adding default ZBuffer Property to Scene Root
Root node is Tree_1
Saving to E:\3dsmax4\meshes\Tree_1.NIF
--------------------------------------------------

However, in game it does not work: (
I try to save in a format KF (is established "Extract to KF file"). It does not work! TES Exporter (for 3D Max 4. *) again keeps model in a format NIF. Any files X _ *.* are not created! The messages TES Exporter same... The file by nothing differs from created earlier.
The animation does not work: (

Who can advise how to decide this problem?


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njroo_ke
Novice

Reged: 05/24/03
Posts: 12
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1792902 - 09/15/03 12:53 AM

Hey,

I just read this entire thread and I would like to comment on the Sitting aspect of it.

The aspect of sitting that many of you are overlooking is the fact that you can eliminate the obstacle of finding things to sit on, by not having anything to sit on at all.

By this I mean, having the sitting mod simply be sitting on the GROUND. You know, like chilling, relaxing, just plain old sitting on the ground. Wouldn't that make it a lot easier to animate?

Also, for NPC's, most of them are in spaces that have plenty of room to sit. No need for chairs, just sit on the ground!

Also, the animation doesn't even have to be all that complicated or drawn out. Since we have 40 frames to work with, all you have to do is fit in movement from standing position to a relaxed sitting pose on the ground. (a la Ragnorak Online)

It could at least be a start

Any thoughts?

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Thread_Whisperer
Adept

Reged: 02/14/03
Posts: 216
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: ]
      #1793091 - 09/15/03 04:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

sitting?




Sitting would require a lot of code changes to work properly. It is not simply a matter of adding a new animation group. The NPC has to find a place to sit, the seat has to be the right height and free of obstructions, etc. You could probably kludge something that makes a seat appear under a character's butt when they sit down, but I don't think there's any way to create a general "sit on any chair that's available" system without modifying the code. (you mod makers should take this as a challenge )




Regarding this statement...NPC's that are in the area of a chair could simply have their idle animations replaced with "sitting" versions so they can be "placed" in chairs via the editor...this would at least give variety to the interior NPC's....I would think anyway....have a script on the entry door that randomly sets which NPC is placed in the room like Standing_Bob or Sitting_Bob this way the Bob NPC would be placed either sitting or standing in the room randomly when the player entered....

It just means you would have to create duplicate NPC's IF you wanted them to stand and sit...but if you just wanted a drunk in a bar that always sat there you could just make one drunk sitting in a chair with his own idle animations like the dancing girls...

As for the PC being able to sit...couldn't you simply script a chair similar to a container but as an activator so that if someone is in it, it would show as "full" and therefore be unsittable....if there is no one in it and the PC was in front of the chairs location by such and such and such coordinates to the chairs location....it would then force the new idle animation that has the character turn and sit....??

I do not have max nor have I ever even seen it being used...but from what has been said in this thread it seems to me that these things CAN be done by those who do have max and know how to use it....

anyway it does sound as though new things will develope from the information that has been shared in this thread and that is exciting

Many thanx to all those who have shared the info AND to all those who are using the info that was shared to give us simpletons new toys to play with



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Daerk
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Posts: 466
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Thread_Whisperer]
      #1793149 - 09/15/03 04:57 AM

This would only work if all objects that could be sat on were of equal height, and if all races had their sitting animations matched to that height.

Also, you'd merely be aligning the PC to the object, and then calling the idle script to sit.

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Thread_Whisperer
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Reged: 02/14/03
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Daerk]
      #1793204 - 09/15/03 06:21 AM

unless you remade the chairs with there z axis or "solid" mark...like the one that the object "hits" when you F key it in the editor...make that on the "seat" of the chair...then it wouldn't have to be the same height...there aren't that many chairs a simple remake of the z axis shouldn't be to hard should it? that way the sitting routine can lock on the chairs seat as a called location of the chairs z axis location right?...or no?

again I have no idea if what I am saying is practical or not just seems like it should be ...



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njroo_ke
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Reged: 05/24/03
Posts: 12
Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: njroo_ke]
      #1793288 - 09/15/03 07:56 AM

Quote:

Hey,

I just read this entire thread and I would like to comment on the Sitting aspect of it.

The aspect of sitting that many of you are overlooking is the fact that you can eliminate the obstacle of finding things to sit on, by not having anything to sit on at all.

By this I mean, having the sitting mod simply be sitting on the GROUND. You know, like chilling, relaxing, just plain old sitting on the ground. Wouldn't that make it a lot easier to animate?

Also, for NPC's, most of them are in spaces that have plenty of room to sit. No need for chairs, just sit on the ground!

Also, the animation doesn't even have to be all that complicated or drawn out. Since we have 40 frames to work with, all you have to do is fit in movement from standing position to a relaxed sitting pose on the ground. (a la Ragnorak Online)

It could at least be a start

Any thoughts?




*sigh* .........you guys are arguing over something that i just posted that can be solved......

o_o


Edited by njroo_ke (09/15/03 07:58 AM)

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Thread_Whisperer
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Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: njroo_ke]
      #1795846 - 09/16/03 04:11 PM

Actually your way does not solve it...it does offer an alternative. But the "argument" as you call it is over sitting in chairs....sitting on the floor is one way of sitting...it would be strange though to go to a bar and sit on the floor when there were empty chairs all over the room...The sit on the floor thing though would be great for when you had a camp fire somewhere or a bedroll...:)

LOL

I did see that post when you made it and I do appologize for not recognizing it when I posted because I would love to have the ability to sit on the ground just as much as in a chair!



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j4m3sb0nd

Re: Character Animation Revealed... [Re: Thread_Whisperer]
      #1817895 - 09/27/03 05:58 AM

so, can you make, say creatures, use different attack groups & such than there default?

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